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GNOME GUI

GNOME 2.0 Developer Platform Beta 204

Posted by michael from the gnome-mans-land dept.
ambrosius27 writes: "To quote from Jeff Waugh's announcement: "The API frozen Developer Platform Beta, 'Everyone's Excited and Confused', is ready for your porting pleasure!" You can find the full announcement on Gnotices. The GNOME developers have been hard at work. Feel free to download, create/port applications, and, most of all, send in nicely detailed bug reports!"
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GNOME 2.0 Developer Platform Beta More

GNOME 2.0 Developer Platform Beta

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  • Confused (Score:5, Funny)

    by PineHall ( 206441 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @07:43PM (#2706352)
    The API frozen Developer Platform Beta, 'Everyone's Excited and Confused'

    I am now confused. Should I be excited?

    • Re:Confused (Score:3, Informative)

      by gehrehmee ( 16338 )
      They revamped the Airport completely

      now it looks just like a nightclub,
      Everyone's excited and confused .
      Baby, check this out I've got something to say,
      Man it's so loud in here!
      When they start the love machine and I can love again,
      I'll remember what it was.

      They Might Be Giants - Man it's so Loud in Here [cybercomm.net]

  • Frozen api? (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    To access zipped files I use unzip, but to access a frozen api, is the software called "unfreeze" or "thaw"?

  • In relation to Ximian Gnome (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Glenn2372 ( 461378 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @07:49PM (#2706367)
    Okay, this is coming from a lesser-experience Linux user so don't flame me TOO hard, but how does this tie (if at all) with Ximian's version of Gnome?

    I'm really liking Evolution, and while their desktop is pretty, it seems bare in comparision to KDE's solution. To be able to port more stuff over to Gnome (and Ximian's GNOME), would be wonderful in my eyes.

    Now, granted, I may be completely confused and these don't mix at all, so in that case, just tell me to shut up and I'll go crawl back in my hole.

    • Re:In relation to Ximian Gnome (Score:4, Informative)

      by fib11235 ( 536873 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @08:28PM (#2706494)
      Ximian takes a stable Gnome release, and builds a product around it.

      Assume that they will need a fair amount of time to wait for Gnome 2.0 to stabalize, and get there 2.0 version out. I would guese at least 3-4 months before some beta product is announced, and at least 6 months untill they switch over.

      I think Gnome 2.0 will generate substantial interest in getting applications ported over. That's the real ticket.

      • Re:In relation to Ximian Gnome (Score:4, Informative)

        by GrenDel Fuego ( 2558 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @08:37PM (#2706515)
        Gnome 1.4 was released April 4th of this year. Ximian Gnome 1.4 was released April 24th. (Dates from Slashdot).

        Since Ximian employes a lot of the main Gnome developers, they're probably working on their product as gnome is testing, so the release time shouldn't be that far off from the Gnome 2.0 release date.
    • What do you mean by ``it seems bare in comparision to KDE's solution''?

      You can always run KDE applications on a Gnome desktop. (Similarly you can always run Gnome applications on a KDE dekstop.) If your complaint isn't a lack of applications, what is it you'd like to see?

      --Ben

      • I've got a counter question then. I read quite a lot about Linux before I actually took the step of installing it and trying to use it instead of Windows. Before the install, I had assumed that Gnome apps and KDE apps only ran on Gnome and KDE respectively. Obviously this is not the case. What then is the difference between KDE apps and Gnome apps? Just an idle question. stipe42 www.pcwatch.com [pcwatch.com]
        • Technically, the difference is that each desktop uses it's own set of libraries. This allows programs to easily have a similar look and feel and to work well together within a given desktop. In the end, all Gnome and KDE applications are really just like any other programs; they will run as long as they have an X server to talk to.

          --Ben

  • Logo Change? (Score:5, Funny)

    by The Great Wakka ( 319389 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @07:49PM (#2706368) Homepage Journal
    Perhaps for GNOME 2, they should change it to a RIGHT foot instead... just a thought.
  • I run Linux on my Sony VAIO 505FX (the first generation ultraslim) with 96MB of memory, and the highest res is only 800x600 (I know, I wish it could do better). I find the AA text from KDE to be a really nice feature to have, as it makes everything much smoother. However, KDE is gigantic bloat, and it makes my little vaio crawl.

    This machine is quite zippy running Gnome+Sawfish. And I'd wish to have AA fonts on Gnome too. Is this a hi-pri feature for 2.0? Can't wait to see that.
    • yes, Gtk 2 has AA already builtin (unlike the gdkxft hack for gtk 1.2) like the latest qt. check out this screenshot:

      http://developer.gnome.org/dotplan/images/gnome2 -w ith-launchers-1207.png
    • Font anti-aliasing is probably one of the major reasons that KDE is so slow for you. Try turning it off and compare again.
      • Nope, that does not help. I turned off AA, remove all the applets (except the battery monitoring one), run rxvt instead of Kterm, only have two desktops, and only one app at a time. And I have no unnecessary daemons (sendamil, ftpd, ....), it just run enough to bring a bare machine up. And KDE still makes it crawl.

        And oh, for those flamers who said I just need to do some research because AA is already in GTK, blah blah blah, well yeah, I knew that. But I want to be able to turn it on/off thru Gnome Control, and apply it to the whole environment.


      • >>

        Yeah, this has been my experience too. Turnng on AA sends memory usage through the roof and also slows down application start time. Go mad and stick 1,000 TT fonts on your system, and it takes between 30 secs and 1 min to start any apps at all. KDE has some serious problems to work out with anti-aliasing.

        Btw, using TT fonts also makes a pigs-ear of "Print to PDF" (which uses ps2pdf) producing very ratty looking output. I imaging that Gnome users will run into this problem too, as that's a Ghostscript issue.
    • Whenever I see screenshots of KDE and Gnome, the letters W,S and V look just really ugly, is this a problem which is going to be fixed as AA mature ?
      • I'm not too happy with the capital X and small k myself. Although it helps to have the right fonts (Microsofts free web font collection) installed and to have a good XftConfig, anti-aliasing isn't 100% perfect yet.


        This is mostly an issue with XFree. The noticable improvements between 4.0 and 4.1 should give hope for even better results in the future. I've heard from XFree86 CVS users that there are indeed many more improvements in several areas. Looking forward to XFree 4.2, or the next 4.1.

    • > However, KDE is gigantic bloat, and it makes my little vaio crawl.
      If thats the case it's your distros fault, KDE on Debian(Woody) is really zippy.

  • The KDE vs GNOME war does not exsist!!! (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The entire nonexistent 'war' is just made up by some trolling losers who have nothing better to do!
    When one of the desktops come with good news, the trolls get all upset about it and spread FUD.
    Well, let's face the reality: the war does not exist!
    Sorry, but that's the way it is, so live with it, 'cause trolling is completely useless.
    Nobody will listen to you, no matter how hard to try.
    • This might sound wierd but I like the trolling between these two desktops. It makes people get all ruffled up and go hack at their favorite desktop to one up the other. Competition is good. I think they are both great desktop's with a lot to offer and need each other to have something to compare to. Windows has no competition and this has become its weakness as they have become very lazy and ignorant towards their users needs.

      I have just recently installed XP and my wife now prefers using Linux to browse the internet since it takes all day to get Windows to load let alone navigate through. I am constantly patching Internet Explorer and have not had to yet do this likewise with Mozilla. This may be that Mozilla does not have the power of Virus Basic for the Script Kiddies to play with...
      • Funny you should mention that, because I have had a similiar situation occur with me. My Dad, not a big PC user(just likes to take digital pics and play games) didnt realize that i repartitoned the pc and put mandrake on it. He saw reconfiguring it and to my surprise he was more excited of the operation and use compared to windows. Needless to say he wants to play with it once i show him the uses of it. Ill reply back once i see his unbias opinion.

  • screenshots link (Score:5, Informative)

    by Proud Geek ( 260376 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @07:58PM (#2706399) Homepage Journal
    Well, this is a developer link, not for people who don't enjoy building it themselves, but here are some nice screenshots [gnome.org].
    • As usual the icons are beautiful, but I sure hope that widget style isn't the default theme.. it's horrible! Almost looks like the worst of Motif and Windows combined.


      I also noticed a 1.4.1 release is planned ("Bug fix and UI polish follow-on to 1.4: Not yet released"), is there any schedule for that one or is it mostly forgotten with 2.0 approaching?

    • It looks exactly like the current gnome except for the aa fonts. I use kde, but I always look forward to a new gnome release. Since gnome 1.2 came out, it hasn't seemed to change much at all. With these screenshots, it appears like it may be more of the same only a little prettier. Of course, it may be better performance-wise.

      I noticed in one shot of the control panel, there was the ability to customize "Sawfish Window Manager". Okay, I'll start my rant. Remember awhile back when gnome did their usability study? Haven't they learned anything? How many users know, or even need to know what a window manager is? How many users know, or need to know, what a sawfish window manager is? Instead you could have a couple of separate entries like "Change Window Decorations" and "Change Window Behavior". That ought to cover any relevant window management issues. This business of having more than one choice of window managers is really silly anyway for a desktop environment. This is treated as a selling point! It's not. Window managers are for people who don't like desktop environments and want complete control. Make this shit transparent to people! For a company like Ximian who obviously has visions of taking over the world, this ought to be a piece of cake.

      Kde is equally guilty of this sin. When you change your desktop theme, the entire desktop should change. The window borders, the widgets, the background, the taskbar, everything. But no. In kde, changing the theme doesn't change the window border. You have to select that separately. As well, they give you the option of changing the "style" in addition to the two options "theme" and "window border". In gnome, it's a little better. You can change your theme. But it doesn't affect the window borders. You have to customize "Sawfish Window Manager" to do that. At that point, however, Joe User has already given up.

      • Re:screenshots link (Score:5, Informative)

        by jdub! ( 24149 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @11:39PM (#2707068) Homepage
        Hi there,

        Not only did Sun provide their usability study to the GNOME community for review and reflection, the GNOME Usability Project has been working very hard on both our Human Interface Guide and some basic changes they feel are essential for the GNOME 2.0 Desktop release. You can find these on the GUP website [gnome.org].

        These have certainly not been ignored, in fact, they have spawned an incredible amount of discussion and development work. The screenshot you see of the new control centre is a port of the 1.5 version that Ximian have been shipping as a preview component of their GNOME 1.4 desktop.

        Many of the superfluous options have been removed from GNOME's user interface, which is a very important step in the right direction for usability. Don't worry, all those crazy options that we geeks love will be still be around, they'll just be harder to get to (so umpteen million options don't crowd our preferences dialogues).

        Indeed, the concept of configuring so many seemingly disparate parts of the desktop, such as GTK+ themes, window manager themes, backgrounds, etc., will be simplified with the new Metatheme system, which integrates all of these into a simple dialogue. You can very easily make your own metathemes too.

        I hope these address your concerns about GNOME developer's desire to improve the usability of our desktop. :)

  • It's great to see open source software... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ... progressing like this. This just goes to show what can be done. Excellent job, men and women! Keep up the great work over at the GNOME project! My humble thanks.

  • ...is a lyric from Man, it's So Loud in Here, from They Might Be Giants [tmbg.com]' new album, Mink Car [amazon.com].


    They revamped the airport completely,
    now it looks just like a nightclub,
    everyone's excited and confused...


    go gnome!

  • Be prepared for lots of new desktops! (Score:4, Informative)

    by Rob Kaper ( 5960 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @09:27PM (#2706647) Homepage
    From GNOME 2.0 Release Schedule [gnome.org] and KDE 3.0 Release Plan [kde.org]:

    • December 10: KDE 3.0 Beta1 release
    • January 14: KDE 3.0 RC 1 release
    • January 16: Gnome 2.0 Desktop Beta 1
    • January 30: Gnome 2.0 Desktop Beta 2
    • February 20: Gnome 2.0 Desktop Release Candidate 1
    • February 25: KDE 3.0 Final release*
    • March 15: Gnome 2.0 Desktop Final


    * (or RC 2 in case it is necessary)

    Notice how the planned GNOME releases are closer together than the KDE releases. Is there any indication when GNOME 2.1 will be out? KDE usually takes 4/5 months between releases, so I expect KDE 3.1 in July, with a 3.1.1 bugfix release in August and of course a 3.0.1 bugfix release at the end of March of begin of April.

    GNOME did not have as many recent releases as KDE has with the 2.x series (GNOME underwent the same large overhaul as KDE did during the transition to KDE2), so what kind of a release schedulet can we expect of GNOME after 2.0?
    • * March 15: Gnome 2.0 Desktop Final

      Beware the Ides of March!


  • Finally! With this, I think all the Linux GUI's will be better off. Wow, I remember when GUI ment small boxes that had no shadowing, and such. But what ever did happen to those many old desktops we used before?
  • performance of gnome 1.4 (?) sucked, I endee up using kde, falling back to gonme apps under it too often. I believe botb destktop environments are quite ready for prime time, feature-wise. But both suck in terms of performace, windows 2k runs waaaay faster. SO I guess they would something about speed in gnome 2.0, and that something shouldn't be 10%-20%. KDe is already lost, 3.0 alpha is out and beta is near. Gnome 2.0 is our only hope. (help me obi van...[well, I'm as drunk as I could be, bear with me will you?])
  • Is there any fix for the Nautilus problems on RH 7.2? If I turn Nautilus off the icons and right-click menu go with it.

    • Re:Nautilus w/ RH 7.2 (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      this is because nautilus is used to draw the desktop including the icons as well as used for the right click menu used for file management. Basically this is not a bug.

  • Wheel reinvention (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DGolden ( 17848 ) on Saturday December 15, 2001 @07:13AM (#2707841) Homepage Journal
    Question - has there been any progress made on bringing the respective component models of KDE and GNOME any closer together? It'd be nice to be able to embed a Bonobo component in a KParts document, perhaps itself embedded in a StarOffice or even Mozilla framework. How fundamentally different are KParts/DCOP, Bonobo/CORBA, StarOffice/UNO, Mozilla/XPCOM, Java/JavaBeans, Microsoft OLE/COM, (probably Xt belongs in this list too...), will there ever be any hope of unifying them a bit better ???
    • DCOP, CORBA, UNO, XPCOM, COM, JavaBeans, etc were all created with the same goal in mind: enabling transparent RPC between desktop and server applications, cross-network and cross-platform. As far as I know, none have succeeded in this dream.

      DCOP: although I was excited about DCOP the first time I saw it, it hasn't evolved very much since then and has never reached the level of flexibility that complicated distributed RPC apps demand.

      CORBA: on the opposite end of the spectrum from DCOP, CORBA is bloated and slow, but it runs on almost every UNIX and maybe that will be what saves it.

      COM/DCOM: to be perfectly honest, MS has done a fairly good job with these. Too bad they are built on an ABI centered around little-endian Intel machines running WIndows. I wonder what will be the fate of COM/DCOM when Microsoft moves over to Itanium...

      What we really need is an efficient, cross-platform RPC system with full security mechanisms, transactions, synchronous and asynchronous modes, which can bridge the gap between fully distributed RPC systems such as CORBA and fully internalized component systems such as COM. It needs to be language-independent, fast, and use little memory.

      I wish all the smart people working on all these systems would stop one-upping each other every other month and actually sit down to design something we can all agree on and use. Every program on every platform out there could benefit from that.

  • Gnome and Kde are both part of the linux desktop, and from what i've seen, they need to cooperate more. Just because there is not a war going on between them doesn't mean they couldn't use improved relations. There is not enough interopablity. IMHO, that is the area they most need to work on. This doesn't mean merging the projects or anything like that. This means making them work together, and making them share things where appropriate. Maybe even taking some things out of themselves and moving them into a shared lower level.

    It would be nice if they should share things like themes and configuration options. I should be able to say i want my default window background color blue, and most windows should listen and do that. I shouldn't have to say i want my GTK+ windows blue, then say again i want my QT windows blue, then say again i want my xyzlib windows blue, etc.

    More shared standards!

  • I'd use gnome if one simple thing would get fixed. When you click on the titlebar of a window I think it should maximize. This shading business is silly. Shading windows in a GUI that lacks a minimize button/feature is a necessity, but in a proper GUI it doesn't really need to be there, let alone be the ONLY option available. At the very least users should be able to configure this behavior. I keep waiting and hoping that this will be corrected but so far nothing has happened. Until it does I'm sticking with KDE or IceWM sans gnome.

    Lee

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