Java 1.5.0 Now Officially Java 5.0 534
Quantum Jim writes "In a move which out-does Netscape's one-version number skip and Winamp's two-numbers skip, Sun has announced that the upcoming Java2 release will be marketed as version 5.0, skipping three-and-a-half numbers. Can version 6.022E23 be far behind? Thanks to David Flanagan for the heads-up."
Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:5, Funny)
Windows 3.1 to Windows 95: 91.9 version numbers skipped
Windows 98 to Windows 2000: 1902 version numbers skipped
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:5, Interesting)
Then there was 3.1
then 3.14
then 3.141
now it's 3.14159
And don't even ask about Metafont...
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, there was also a Word 6 for DOS (the final one, I believe), and also Word 6 for Mac. I think the motive was more to do with WordPerfect being at 5.1. Obviously 6 must be better than 5.1. Same as the leapfrogging version numberss that Netscape and IE did for a while.
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, I didn't know that. But SCO Unix was originally MS Xenix. Microsoft Word for UNIX Systems Release 5.1 [opsys.com]:
Apparently discontinued in 1996. Obviously, it could be ported to Linux trivially, Bill's dead body being the only obstacle.Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:4, Informative)
- Oisin
Pedant time... (Score:5, Informative)
Windows 98 = Windows 4.10.1998 on MSDOS 7
Windows 2000 = Windows NT 5.00.2195
For completeness...
Windows XP = Windows NT 5.1.2600
Come on, out-pedant me...
Re:Pedant time... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Pedant time... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Pedant time... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:4, Informative)
Christ, as a degree holding classicist, I can't let you get away with two sentences with that many errors in them.
XP is a long used symbol for Christ, dating back to some of the earliest christian artwork, with the symbols pronounced Chi-Rho in Roman. We could say the year of XP is 1.
Let's take it one at a time:
XP is a long used symbol for Christ
XP is not a symbol for Christ. It is the first two letters of the word "Christ" in Greek.
dating back to some of the earliest christian artwork
Dating back actually to the battle of the Milvian bridge, where the would-be Roman emperor Constantine fought the would-be Roman emperor Maxentius. The actual story of why they were both fighting goes back to Diocletian's division of the empire to a system of 2 senior and 2 junor rulers (2 Augusti and 2 caesars). Constantine saw the sign "XP" in the sky on his way to the bridge with his army (accounts vary), and he interpreted it to mean that if he had his soldiers paint XP on their shields, christ would help him win. Some accounts include that he heard the words "In hoc signo vinces", or "In this sign, conquer".
with the symbols pronounced Chi-Rho in Roman
No, no, no, no! Chi and Rho are GREEK letters. Not to mention ROMAN is not a language. Latin is the language spoken by the Roman people. X and P (Chi and Rho) are the first two letters of XPISTOS, chi-rho-iota-sigma-tau-omicron-sigma, or the Greek translation of the hebrew word for messiah, "one annointed by god".
We could say the year of XP is 1
Or, we could say that the year of XP (i.e. the year that it became significantly important) is 312 A.D., the year of the battle at the milvian bridge.
~Will
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:3, Informative)
Moll.
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:5, Interesting)
Some time ago, the developers realized that GNU Emacs would probably never change its major version number (which is 1). So, after some point, instead of "GNU Emacs 1.x.y", they started dropping the 1 (since it was constant information and therefore redundant). So the current release of GNU Emacs is actually 1.21.3, but it's called "GNU Emacs 21.3".
This actually appears to be what Sun is doing now. They've done it before with Solaris/SunOS
Version *strip* not skip. (Score:4, Informative)
The second digit becomes the first and the third the second. This is perfectly in line with accepted norms when you consider the improvements of 1.4.2 over 1.4.1. For minor increments, Sun had to resort to seriously odd numbers like 1.4.2_04.
Makes sense to me. The "2" in J2SE is unfortunate, but at this point the numericity of that character is dead. J2SE, J2EE and J2ME are just brands, not versions.
Re:Other Famous Version Number Skips (Score:3, Informative)
Winamp didn't skip version 4 (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Winamp didn't skip version 4 (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Winamp didn't skip version 4 (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Winamp didn't skip version 4 (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Winamp didn't skip version 4 (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Winamp didn't skip version 4 (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Winamp didn't skip version 4 (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Winamp didn't skip version 4 (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Winamp didn't skip version 4 (Score:2)
BMW & Canon (Score:3, Interesting)
OTOH, there is absolutely no logic behind the U.S. market designations of Canon's mid-range SLR bodies. They went from the Elan, to the Elan II, to the Elan 7, to the Elan 7N.
Re:Winamp didn't skip version 4 (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Winamp didn't skip version 4 (Score:3, Informative)
Strongly Typed Container Classes (Score:4, Interesting)
Joy.
Re:Strongly Typed Container Classes (Score:5, Interesting)
I read a pretty good interview w/ Eckel and that guy who has done most of the work on C#. The creator of C# was bashing Java's generics, because they aren't giving the full performance possible. And I agree. There is still such a thing as performance critical code, and Java can make it frustratingly hard to write it. Providing featureful, fast data structures would be a good place to start.
I can't find the article I'm referencing, but this sums up Eckel's view. [mindview.net]
Pizza [sourceforge.net] was an alternative implementation of generics for Java. I wish that Sun had chosen this project as their basis for 1.5's generics, rather than GJ (Generic Java). I believe its implementation is much closer to that of C++'s templates. I'd love to use pizza, but it's just not wide-spread enough to justify it in enterprise code.
Re:Strongly Typed Container Classes (Score:3, Interesting)
It has bindings with Java and
Re:Strongly Typed Container Classes (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Strongly Typed Container Classes (Score:3, Informative)
int i = ((Integer) container.get(indx));
would not work
should have been
int i = ((Integer) container.get(indx)).intValue();
Re:Strongly Typed Container Classes (Score:3, Insightful)
int i = ((Number) container.get(indx));
Re:Strongly Typed Container Classes (Score:4, Insightful)
Once the greater majority of libraries have been rewritten to fully utilise genericity, it would be time to think about integrating generics into the VM.
Re:Strongly Typed Container Classes (Score:3, Interesting)
Are you sure? I understood that it worked by generating implicit subclasses of your generic type that are customized in terms of return type. So if you had say an object of type Iterator, the run-time environment would procede as if the object's next() function was declared as "String next ()" ?
Althou
Re:Strongly Typed Container Classes (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, that makes part of the power of templates: They have all the good parts of macros, while avoiding most of their problems. The other part of their power comes from the fact that they are indeed more tham macros (and mode than Java/C# generics either): You can specialize them either completely or partially, allowing e.g. more efficient algorithms for special cases. Indeed, they are turing complete, which effectively means that you can make arbitrary complex decisions at compile time.
Of course this also gives the danger of overdoing it and producing incomprehensible code for little benefit, but then that danger is IMHO not really different from the same danger for pure runtime optimizations (if (special_case) { cryptic_code(); } else { slightly_less_cryptic_code(); }).
95 - 2000 (Score:3, Funny)
Re:95 - 2000 (Score:2, Interesting)
Not really that odd - Emacs did it already (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Not really that odd - Emacs did it already (Score:4, Funny)
not even the first time (Score:5, Informative)
Don't you see the pattern? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Don't you see the pattern? (Score:3, Informative)
Read the article...
This isn't Java5, it is Java 2 v5
Re:Solaris (Score:3, Informative)
Solaris 2.6 was SunOS 5.6, and Solaris 7 is SunOS 5.7
So you have -
SunOS 5.6, Solaris 2.6
SunOS 5.7, Solaris 7
Whoa (Score:2, Insightful)
Although Microsoft did go from Windows NT 4 to Windows 2000, that wasn't really a version jump (Windows 2000 = Windows NT 5) but a change of branding.
Anyone know even greater version inflations?
Re:Whoa (Score:3, Informative)
Emacs 1.12 to 13.0. Like Java, its not a real version skip, just the initial "1." got dropped because it seemed superfluous if it was never getting updated.
Awesome (Score:2, Funny)
Not really that radical (Score:2)
Good to know... (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously though -- I love Java, but Sun needs to pull its head out of its ass before C#, PHP, and Python relegate Java to the scrap heap.
Re:Good to know... (Score:3, Insightful)
Same purposes:
GUI development: C#/.NET (Windows), C#/Gtk# (Linux), Python/Gtk (Linux), Python/wxWindows (cross-platform)
Server Side: ASP.NET (Windows, Linux), PHP, Python, Perl
Cross Platform: C++/wxWindows, C++/Qt, Python/wxWindows
ASP.NET is the biggest threat to Java: that's where server-side development is moving on Windows (W
Versioning is a joke (Score:3, Insightful)
None is consistent, there is no 'standard' and its ( as is apparent by the story, and many in the past ) all arbitrary...
Where does the 2 come into this? (Score:3, Informative)
TWW
Re:Where does the 2 come into this? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Where does the 2 come into this? (Score:3, Insightful)
Then why not Java 2.0? Why Java 2 1.2? I ask because I've been confused by this before, though got it worked out.
Re:Where does the 2 come into this? (Score:2)
Re:Where does the 2 come into this? (Score:5, Insightful)
If anyone has contact with the people who came up with the Java versioning scheme, please ask them what they are smoking and where I can get some.
they must have Jedi on the payroll (Score:5, Funny)
[waves hand Alec Guinness style]
Re:they must have Jedi on the payroll (Score:3, Funny)
AG: "This isn't the code you're looking for"
SCO: "THis isn't the code we're looking for"
AG: "You're a bunch of whiny assholes"
SCO: "We're a bunch of whiny assholes"
AG: "Slashdot was right all along"
SCO: "Slashdot was right all along"
AG: "Move along"
SCO: "Move along, Move along"
Linus Torvalds: "I thought for sure they were going litigate us"
AG: "The force is your ally to a weak mind"
Not that I'm implying any SCO code is in linux, but if you couldn't see that
Systems already in place. (Score:4, Funny)
For non-physics people: (Score:5, Informative)
Re: For non-physics people: (Score:2)
Yes, but non-scientists probably think that a mole is just a furry animal. :-)
For the confused: 6.022E23 represents the number of molecules in a large container of any gas (specifically a 22.4L gas can). That's why Avogadro's number is important.
Re: For non-physics people: (Score:4, Informative)
The formal definition of a mole is that it's the number of atoms in 12 grams of the isotope Carbon-12. The molecular weight of atoms as listed on a periodic table represent the average mass of a mole of the element in naturally occurring proportions. In the case of Carbon, small amounts of the 13C and 14C isotopes result in an average mass slightly above 12.
Re:For non-physics people: (Score:5, Funny)
Realistically, I'd call it 3.0 (Score:3, Insightful)
this is why "java 2" was such a dumb idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:this is why "java 2" was such a dumb idea (Score:2)
it'll probably be Java5 1.5. however, they may have thought of exactly what you thought of and decided to dump the whole dual versioning system and jump from 1.4 to 5.0.
Re:this is why "java 2" was such a dumb idea (Score:3, Insightful)
seriously though, it seems like sun should just pull an emacs, drop the "1.", and use the minor version number as THE version number from now on. Then the ordering would become sane; we'd have java5 now, java6 next, java7 later on, etc.
Java vs. JDK (Score:3, Insightful)
Embarrassing and Harmful (Score:4, Insightful)
Managers don't understand the details - they don't bother to learn that 5.0 is really 1.5, and they make decisions based on their high level views.
Sun has hurt Java's name, and let its developers down, with this absurd naming move, a repeat of the shambolic schizophrenic 1.2/2.0 business years ago.
So now we have Java 2 Version 5????? Employers will want to know why developers haven't done any version 3 and version 4. And it will certainly confuse the crap out of them.
Java has a good name for professionalism, but whoever came up with this ought to hang their head in shame.
Re:Embarrassing and Harmful (Score:4, Funny)
Java has a good name for professionalism, but whoever came up with this ought to hang their head in shame.
You misspelled "ought to be hung".
*sigh* I hate marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
Jesus. Just give me a version number so I can track what it's compatible with, and what features it has. If you're bumping up your version number for a product, bump them for all related ones as well, in the same increment. Don't make me try to figure out what version number of the language is supported by which version number of the developer's kit for god's sake. Is it so damn hard?
I thought marketing was suppose to create clarity in the minds of the potential customer. Screwing around with numbering schemes isn't the way to do that. I don't care what your internal taxonomies are. Just label the thing, and stick with it.
I also take it that Sun's marketing/engineering is stealing their "internal" project naming protocols from Apple?
What world do YOU live in? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:*sigh* I hate marketing (Score:3, Insightful)
Amen brother. Tell it like it is. How does Sun expect to compete with .Net if they can't even stop confusing everybody over the version numbers. They're just version numbers for crying out loud. Bring them in line ... just make them both higher than they were before, but the same number.
Re:*sigh* I hate marketing (Score:3, Interesting)
You're asking how sun can compete with Microsoft's
Tell me, what version of the
Shit man. Most people still don't even know what .
Re:*sigh* I hate marketing (Score:3, Insightful)
Aaawww... they're so cute when they're all innocent and naive like that. (^_^)
Marketing is the reason I can buy two different brands of low-cal Pepsi (Diet Pepsi and Pepsi Max(*)); any differences are relatively minor, but Pepsi Max allows men to buy the stuff without being seen drinking a "girl on a diet" drink.
Marketing is meant to sell stuff. Whether Sun will actually do this with their fscked-up numbering is
Par for the course with Sun (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Par for the course with Sun (Score:2)
In other news... (Score:2)
versions of tomorrow (Score:3, Interesting)
Will it be 11? XI?
Oracle (Score:3, Informative)
"to make it sound like it had improvements from the first version"
As a Java developer, I'm all for it (Score:3, Interesting)
Now it's obvious... (Score:5, Funny)
Java numbering... (Score:4, Insightful)
After all, we are all talking about vintages aren't we?
More seriously, Sun should just drop the Java 2/5 numbering and just use the year that is launched as the "brand"... and keep a "internal" version number for identification purposes...
That would keep the market droids happy and the programmers would have both an inteligent numbering and a discreet numbering to work with...
java -version (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:java -version (Score:3, Informative)
Linus makes announcement (Score:5, Funny)
Linus Torvald announced today that the next version of the Linux kernel will be released a "Linux Kernel Version 11". Said Torvald, "Thats one more than Mac's OS, and several more than Microsoft, so people will know its better."
Not as fast as gentoo linux (Score:4, Funny)
Borg Numbering (Score:5, Funny)
Seven of Nine
and introduced a couple of bulging container classes.
Common for Sun. (Score:3, Interesting)
There was Solaris 2.5 and 2.6 then they made solaris 7 aka 2.7 then solaris 8 and solaris 9 and if you check the version numbers you get Solaris 2.9 and SunOS 5.9
This seems to be common for sun when their product seems to reach maturity and they are not planning on doing a major overhall to their product they will drop the first diget then make the 10s spot the version number. I Think it is more for an advertisement thing because a lot of people dont like getting incremental updates
Aerospace Industry (Score:3, Funny)
Airbus:
A300
A310 up 10
A320 up 10
A330 up 10
A340 up 10
A319 down 21
A321 up 2
A380 up 59
Boeing
707
727 up 20
737 up 10
747 up 10
757 up 10
767 up 10
777 up 10
717 down 60
7E7 D0?
I guess they've been using HEX all along. Who the $#%^ versions in HEX?
Re:deeper problem (Score:4, Insightful)
The only difference I can see between Java and C++ is that there isn't a separate international entity that defines the standard. Sun, along with members of the Java Community Process, is in control of Java standards.