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Java SE 6 Released

Hemos posted more than 7 years ago | from the upgrade-maybe dept.

Java 146

twofish writes "Sun has announced the availability of Java Standard Edition 6 final release. JSE6 now has dynamic language support. It comes pre-delivered with Netscape's Rhino, a Javascript engine, and the scripting project's home page documents many other available scripting languages, including awk, Jelly, Pnuts, Python, Ruby, and Scheme. In addition a lot of work has been done on the libraries and run-time compiler. The JIT has been improved, with better runtime analysis of program characteristics, giving notable performance improvements. Other improvements include better desktop support, improvements in Swing look and feel, Windows Vista support, and better diagnostic support (For example, profilers and debuggers can now attach to a running JVM without specifically using a debugging-capable configuration. For example, if a problem is found at run-time for a production server, a debugger can attach to it without restarting the server). Sun is also offering sixty days of free developer support for JSE 6 through their Developer Services program."

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146 comments

That's great (0, Troll)

A beautiful mind (821714) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194240)

The JIT has been improved, with better runtime analysis of program characteristics, giving notable performance improvements
Great! Just In Time to take advantage of that in the new version of my application.

Laugh 2.0.

Re:That's great (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17195224)

Does startup time still lick balls or no? Or is GUI app responsiveness still considered overrated?

Is it any faster for client-side apps? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17194284)

While Java performs acceptably for server applications, it has traditionally been quite lousy when it comes to client-side development. A big problem with this was that their Swing toolkit is goddamn slow. I really don't know why, nor do I particularly care why. What I'm interested in is if anything has been done in Java SE 6 to improve the quality and performance of Swing, to the point that it's at least comparable to SWT. So has it?

Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? (1)

hey! (33014) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194608)


A big problem with this was that their Swing toolkit is goddamn slow. I really don't know why, nor do I particularly care why.


Well, why is very important. I am not a Java GUI programmer, but it seems to me highly implausible that widget rendering or event dispatching is a limiting factor on a modern system. This suggests that if Swing programs are often slow, something in its basic design encourages certain bad usage patterns. This seems to be consistent with what I have seen, which is that many if not most Java GUIs these days seem to be OK nearly all of the time. I'm reasonably sure it's not because they are all SWT apps.

Which is not to say Swing isn't a problem; it may take more skill to use well than a toolkit should.

Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? (5, Interesting)

0xABADC0DA (867955) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195650)

Java GUIs have traditionally been 'slow' because they are double-buffered by default, and as a consequence they redraw completely before displaying. Hardware simply wasn't fast enough to do this gracefully -- it's only recently that most gnome/kde applications and some xp ones are expected to be double-buffered.

The double-buffering also lead to lots of inefficient widget redrawing, like for a while each widget was cleared with the bg color before being redrawn even if it then say put an image say over its whole area.

The other major slowdown was because Java's graphics were much more advanced than necessary, for example lines of width != 1 with end and joint caps, antialiasing, clipping regions (instead of boxes), custom renderers, etc. This made it difficult to integrate with the simple hardware acceleration at the time. Native apps had jaggy lines and solid colors as the main features.

Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? (5, Informative)

J.Y.Kelly (828209) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195312)

A big problem with this was that their Swing toolkit is goddamn slow

You know, every time a java story appears here this line gets trotted out, but I'm really not sure that it's anywhere near as valid as it once might have been. From what I understand Sun have made a lot of efforts in the last few releases (1.3+) to speed up swing. I've written quite a few java applications in the last couple of years, all swing based, and none of them has caused me to have any concerns over the speed of the GUI toolkit.

Sure swing still has some other issues issues (eg proper native look and feel), but I'm sure that a lot of the complaints people have about the toolkit's speed are either very old prejudices or stem from poor coding within the application rather than from swing itself.

Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17201172)

From what I understand Sun have made a lot of efforts in the last few releases (1.3+) to speed up swing. I've written quite a few java applications in the last couple of years, all swing based, and none of them has caused me to have any concerns over the speed of the GUI toolkit.

First of all, Sun shouldn't have to be making "efforts" to improve the performance of Swing. They should have gotten it right from the onset. After all, it was the second Java-based GUI toolkit they had worked on. Between the various X11, NeWS and OpenWindows GUI toolkits Sun has been responsible for, it's a field they should be absolute experts in. Performance issues should not be a problem, considering their 20 years of experience.

As for the performance of Java 1.3 and onwards, it's not very good. Try using any moderate sized Swing application on a system with a sub-1 GHz CPU. It's not fun, even when you have 2 GB of memory. And keep in mind that many companies out there still have such desktop systems for their everyday use, and don't plan on upgrading for a long time. Any employee time wasted due to a slow client-side application GUI is money going right down the drain. And frankly, that's not good for business. While MFC or wxWidgets applications runs just fine on such systems, Swing apps have always been problematically slow on such systems.

The business I work for runs a network of systems like that. We've run the numbers, and upgrading our hardware just wouldn't be a cost-effective path to take. Just last week we tried using some of our applications on Java 1.4, Java 5 and Java 6 Beta on our 900 MHz systems (with 1 GB of RAM), to see what the performance was like. It was fucking pathetic for all of them, even using the OpenGL rendering pipeline of Java 6. Just to make sure it wasn't a problem our applications, we tried several notable Swing products, including NetBeans. Again, it was goddamn terrible, even at the most basic of tasks. We'd literally have to wait two to three seconds while the main window menus were being redrawn. Over a course of a year, and for each employee, that adds up to a lot of wasted time.

Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17195362)

Eclipse (eclipse.org) has done a good job of providing a respnosive GUI for Java apps. I dont quite like the SWT and JFC APIs as they seems Winowsy and MFC ish, but when you look at the finished product, its worth the price.

Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17198226)

Some guy wrote a SWT-compatible library that used Swing components and it was FASTER then SWT because Swing uses an opengl pipeline so gets more hardware support for rendering. The only reason to use SWT is to get a native interface.

Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? (1)

SQLz (564901) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195400)

I think this was true 5 or 6 years ago, the same can't be said now.

Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? (1)

Veilrap (875588) | more than 7 years ago | (#17201512)

Actually it can be said. Java still runs slower now on Sun's virtual machine on windows machines than it did years ago on Microsoft's VM. Of course Mircosoft's VM is obsolete, but it's still saying something. Java simply can't compete with other languages on speed and I've never seen a convincing argument stating otherwise. I run a few tests on Sun's JVM a couple times a year, then promptly uninstall it in disappointment.

Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? (4, Interesting)

samkass (174571) | more than 7 years ago | (#17196010)

More information can be found at Chris Campbell's blog [java.net], but yes, graphics are much faster in JDK 6 especially with the OpenGL pipeline turned on, although they were hardly "slow" in JDK 5. Also, the JIT compiler has been largely reworked to improve codegen (especially with -server flag specified).

Another common complaint about Java UIs is that the dynamic loading/binding/compiling/optimizing makes things slow the first time anything is done, a little less slow the second time, then reasonably zippy from then on. So the longer you work in a Java app, the faster it gets. In any case, I code in Java IDEs all day long and they don't seem any slower than native apps.

Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17196286)

No, it's not. I've been using the Java 6 beta builds since they were released, and the UIs are no faster than they were in Java 1.5 - and this includes SWT. Both Swing and SWT randomly stop for several seconds while you're using them - I'm assuming that's the GC. Both randomly cause massive paging and lots of thrashing when restoring their window from being minimized. This is on a Dual Core laptop with 1GB of RAM.

They're both reasonably snappy when for simple things like clicking on buttons or opening menus. As before, only SWT comes anywhere close to acting like a native app (since it's actually using native controls) while Swing remains slightly off.

All in all, Swing remains noticeably slower than SWT, presumably because Swing draws the widgets using Java and SWT has native code draw the widgets. In either case it's clear that you're not using a native app - the random freezes get to be annoying after a while. Native apps generally won't randomly freeze for 5 seconds every 20 minutes or so.

Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17197828)

What your describing would be symptomatic of the garbage collector cutting in, as you suggest, and given the lock and stop nature of GC in Java this isn't very surprising. But I genuinely can't remember the last time I noticed it. I use IDEA as my primary IDE (which is Swing based) and Netbeans (also Swing) for some other stuff. I use quick a lot of other Swing based tools during my development day (Tivoli, Jedit, DbVisualizer), and I honestly don't find a problem using them. Haven't for at least 3 years now. And my machine has a considerably lower spec than yours. I wonder how much other stuff you have running that may be already chewing through the physical memory on the machine.

Your Swing/SWT comparison is also quite interesting. I'm assuming you're running Windows, but Swing, since version 5 to some extent and more so in version 6, will use a native widget call if a suitable native widget can be found, so again I'm surprised that you're finding it slower than SWT - they're doing more-or-less the same thing. There is a little bit of overhead in Swing to allow better support for things like dragging and dropping between native and non-native apps seamlessly, but again not anything I'd expect you to notice.

OpenGL rendering (3, Informative)

Laz10 (708792) | more than 7 years ago | (#17198562)

If you have an OpenGL capable gfx card you should enable the OpenGL rending pipe for your Swing applications with this

java -Dsun.java2d.opengl=true *javaprogram*

It is disabled by default for compatability reasons, but all java programs should really make two launchers so users can choose.

The OpenGL path should be a lot faster now, since it has been refactored to use only a single thread to ship commands to the gfx card, which is the same technique that most 3d games uses.

It should be noticable.

Re:Is it any faster for client-side apps? (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 7 years ago | (#17199274)

Java5 and java6 are alot faster than its previous versions as dynamic class loading and other features are now used. Also swing is not threaded by default unlike every other toolkit out there. This means the gui would appear unresponsive if the rest of the app was busy doing something. Java6 threads the swing classes by default now which should eliminate this issue with poorly coded java apps.

I have used java5 on my old pentiumM 1.7 ghz notebook and it runs perfectly fine.

Features? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17194292)

I'm not as excited about this as 5. What are the main new features?

Re:Features? (0, Troll)

badfish99 (826052) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194436)

On Sun's web page announcing this exciting new release, there's a link to the list of "new features and enhancements". When I clicked on it, it said "404: not found". I think that sums up Java quite nicely.

Re:Features? (2, Informative)

aled (228417) | more than 7 years ago | (#17199640)

On Sun's web page announcing this exciting new release, there's a link to the list of "new features and enhancements". When I clicked on it, it said "404: not found". I think that sums up Java quite nicely.


Nice (or not so nice) try of trolling FUD but the link works fine [sun.com].

Re:Features? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17201420)

Try to click on one of the links from your link.... 404 not found.

Re:Features? (1)

Decaff (42676) | more than 7 years ago | (#17198464)

I'm not as excited about this as 5. What are the main new features?

Performance improvements, scripting interface, far better native look-and-feels, much improved debugging and profiling (far easier to connect tools with any running program), lots of XML and web services stuff.

Awesome (1, Insightful)

NaCh0 (6124) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194328)

As if Java and Javascript weren't already confused enough.

Here goes a whole new round of n00b education.

Maybe on the plus side javascript will begin to suck less.

Re:Awesome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17194502)

Javascript doesn't suck, spidermonkey, jscript and kjs suck. You can compile js to a java class with rhino, it's still slower than Java (esp with calls to eval or with) but it could make gobs of pre-existing code reusable ;-)

Netscapes livescript was renamed javascript because it could be used to script Java (via the browser) and now Rhino is part of the official Java runtime. Funny how that worked out.

Re:Awesome (0)

Dante Shamest (813622) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194780)

As if Java and Javascript weren't already confused enough.
Here goes a whole new round of n00b education.
Maybe on the plus side javascript will begin to suck less.

You mean Java right, you n00b.

Re:Awesome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17201492)

Maybe on the plus side javascript will begin to suck less.
I hate JavaScript as much as anyone, but there's a real reason why it sucks. It's not like Java or other languages where there's a single implementation for each platform. Javascript has a minimum of a separate implementation per browser. Each of these implementations has it's own brand of sadistic quirks (IE's more than most, but they all do to some extent). And while a 3rd grader from the "special" class could easily identify one of a handfull of seemingly obvious changes that need to be made to the language to make it suck less that it currently does, there's no way to force those changes into the language. I'm sure the teams from Opera, Konqueror, Safari and Mozilla could all cooperate to implement changes in such a way that developers could actually use the new features, but there's that 10,000 lb gorilla in the corner who doesn't give a rat's ass that JavaScript programming is slightly less pleasant than dental surgery prior to the advent of anesthetics.

In short, JavaScript is frozen in 2001-time because the largest vendor has no interest in keeping its implementation current. JavaScript programmed to run within Rhino only is a much more pleasant experience.

The Tiger still seems fresh (2, Funny)

hansamurai (907719) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194334)

And here I am in the middle of studying for the Java 5 certification exam while my workplace runs 1.42 and J2EE 1.3.

Re:The Tiger still seems fresh (1)

bladesjester (774793) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194466)

That was kind of my first thought as well. They're coming out with the new versions awfully fast lately.

Normally this would not be a problem, but because of JVM version dependancy, and because Java quite often changes just a little in important places for each new release, it becomes a bit of a headache.

Re:The Tiger still seems fresh (1)

Tim C (15259) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194628)

They're coming out with the new versions awfully fast lately.

Are they? Java 5 was released a little over 2 years ago; my mail about it to one of our internal talk groups at work was sent on 30th September 2004 (I found it while sending a similar one about Java 6 a little while ago).

For what it's worth, my company is still using 1.4 for all new work; hopefully this will inspire a move to at least 1.5...

Re:The Tiger still seems fresh (1)

mfarah (231411) | more than 7 years ago | (#17197620)

And here I am in the middle of studying for the Java 5 certification exam while my workplace runs 1.42 and J2EE 1.3.



<AOL>
We are legion.
</AOL>

Re:The Tiger still seems fresh (3, Interesting)

bwt (68845) | more than 7 years ago | (#17198436)

Java 1.5 introduced major syntax enhancements and changes. The three big features of 1.6 are scripting, profiling/debugging, and JIT performance. The nature of these changes makes it much easier to migrate, unless perhaps you had an app that was heavy on BSF (bean scripting framework), in which case you need to migrate.

Downloads page still stupid (4, Insightful)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194338)

Kudos on the new release. I'm running Vista, so the support will be nice.

But as a user, it always amazes me how hard it is to navigate Java's downloads. Assuming non-techies know that "Java Runtime Environment" is what they need to run Java apps, you still have to dig past a JDK and NetBeans link to get to it. I tried walking a relative through downloading the JRE a week ago and it took way longer than it should have.

Re:Downloads page still stupid (0, Flamebait)

jbaas (1020697) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194434)

what's so hard about "sudo apt-get install sun-java5-plugin sun-java5-bin", or "sudoe emerge sun-jre-bin"?

Re:Downloads page still stupid (1)

masklinn (823351) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195162)

what's so hard about "sudo apt-get install sun-java5-plugin sun-java5-bin", or "sudoe emerge sun-jre-bin"?

$ sudo apt-get install sun-java5-plugin sun-java5-bin sudo: apt-get: command not found $ $ sudo emerge sun-jre-bin sudo: emerge: command not found

Mmm that may be part of the problem.

Re:Downloads page still stupid (1)

CrankyOldBastard (945508) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195618)

Mmm that may be part of the problem.

You mean the fact you use a distro with a broken package management system?

Re:Downloads page still stupid (-1, Flamebait)

masklinn (823351) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195902)

No, the fact that I'm using OSX and not one of your nazi-compliant distributions which i don't care for.

Re:Downloads page still stupid (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17196916)

In that case, the correct answer is "yes".

Re:Downloads page still stupid (1)

Otter (3800) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195982)

what's so hard about "sudo apt-get install sun-java5-plugin sun-java5-bin"...

Yeah, that's great but we're talking about SE 6!

Honestly, isn't that just Debian in a nutshell?

Re:Downloads page still stupid (1)

milton.john (604556) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194462)

For non-developers, there is page www.java.com - as I was told some time ago, it's purpose was to make it simple for users to download & install JRE (since that's all they need). Maybe the problem is with marketing this page...

Re:Downloads page still stupid (4, Interesting)

david.given (6740) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194656)

But as a user, it always amazes me how hard it is to navigate Java's downloads.

Yeah. Sun's Java web pages quite frankly are horrific beyond all reason. I dread every time I have to go and find something there --- and frequently I just fail. The last thing I tried to get was the Linux wireless toolkit for developing J2ME apps. I managed to find 2.4 (not supported by EclipseME, which I was using.) I managed to find 2.2. But could I find 2.3? Like hell.

If there's anyone from Sun listening, could you please find whoever is responsible for those web pages and fire them? It's this ghastly maze of long, meaningless product titles, menus that go in loops, undefined terms, endless minutely different product specs, pointless registration systems (which makes me very grateful for BugMeNot)... actually finding the useful information there is it's just too hard. If your web site is so complex and badly designed that people would rather give up than try and figure out, then, I'm afraid, you fail.

Re:Downloads page still stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17194770)

try java.com, it is an ok place to send users to get a jre

Re:Downloads page still stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17195522)

If your web site is so complex and badly designed that people would rather give up than try and figure out, then, I'm afraid, you fail.

If a vendor's website is so complex and badly designed, I just assume the product is at least as complex and badly designed.

Re:Downloads page still stupid (1)

codemachine (245871) | more than 7 years ago | (#17196384)

Wouldn't that only be true if their webmaster also designed their products? I think that'd be a silly assumption with a company the size of Sun.

I don't think the Java websites have really changed that much over the years, which is great for those who have previously been there and know where to find what they want. Maybe not so good for someone that doesn't know what they want/need.

Re:Downloads page still stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17199086)

Sun's web site could be improved, but IBM's wins hands down for being user-vicious!

Re:Downloads page still stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17200304)

If there's anyone from Sun listening, could you please find whoever is responsible for those web pages and fire them?

Sure, just fired the whole team.

Cheers,
jschwartz

Re:Downloads page still stupid (2, Informative)

Sircus (16869) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194850)

www.java.com [java.com] -> first link you read, "Download now". Two clicks, no NetBeans. java.sun.com is for developers, it's reasonable that they angle it towards them.

Re:Downloads page still stupid (1)

nigelo (30096) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195178)

>it's reasonable that they angle it towards them.

Agreed, but instead it's angled straight into the Sun, and it's blinding...

Re:Downloads page still stupid (2, Informative)

MojoRilla (591502) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195464)

Except the version of Java on www.java.com is still Java 5 release 9 [java.com]. So it appears Java 6 is only partially released.

Re:Downloads page still stupid (1)

Nimey (114278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17197136)

Updates there are slow. That site still had J5r6 until recently and never posted 7 or 8. That may be where the Java auto-updater pulls from because many of our machines stuck with r6 until r9 came out.

Re:Downloads page still stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17199352)

Sun's www.java.com is targeted at the end-user and a much easier to get the latest runtime.

still waiting (1)

jrwr00 (1035020) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194368)

I'm still waiting for them to release java as opensource

Re:still waiting (1)

SpaghettiPattern (609814) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194446)

Hint: Google for "java gpl"

Re:still waiting (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194510)

I don't see any links to thier CVS or SVN... Or even a source tarball. Until they actually release something as open source, it's just another empty promise regarding some proprietary language.

Get a Clue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17194512)

The source has been available for quite a while.

Ask Slashdot... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194456)

What's the best way to get back into using Java? I took a couple of programming classes when it was still Java 1.3/1.4 a few years ago and totally missed the jump to Java 5/6.

Re:Ask Slashdot... (3, Informative)

Golthar (162696) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194796)

Some help on getting you back in the saddle with the new features:

1.5 features in a nutshell [sun.com]

Re:Ask Slashdot... (3, Informative)

LarsWestergren (9033) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194826)

What's the best way to get back into using Java? I took a couple of programming classes when it was still Java 1.3/1.4 a few years ago and totally missed the jump to Java 5/6.

I actually enjoyed the Head First Java [oreilly.com] book from O'Reilly, though I'll probably get mocked for it here.... I admit, it can feel a bit "kiddie" to have a lot of pictures, do puzzles and so on, but involving the right half of your brain makes stuff stick better, and for me, makes it fun and fast to learn. Second edition has some Java5 stuff in it.

If that style of learning is not for you, or if you are too advanced for that level, the Java Tutorial [sun.com] was pretty recently updated with new trails for Java 5 and Java 6, so you should find an appropriate level for you quickly. Also Java 5 Developer's Notebook [oreilly.com] is a neat guide.

Version number insanity (1)

ThinkingInBinary (899485) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194900)

I took a couple of programming classes when it was still Java 1.3/1.4 a few years ago and totally missed the jump to Java 5/6.

You were using the JDK 1.3/1.4, which implements Java 3/4. The language versions are numbered N, but Sun's JDK's are numbered 1.N.

Java 5 has added:

  • auto boxing/unboxing, so if the compiler expects an int when you provide an Integer (or vice-versa, for any native type), it will automatically convert by either taking (for example) Integer.intValue or creating a new Integer object.
  • generics, so you don't have to cast objects when taking them out of a collection. Here [sun.com] (warning: PDF!) is a good tutorial on generics, so I don't have to explain them. Essentially you can do List<String> l= new LinkedList<String>(); l.add("foo"); System.out.println(l.first()); without the usual cast.
  • annotations, so you can mark up your code with annotations like bug reports or deprecation. Reflection encompasses annotations, so your code can see what you've said about it. This is a half-hearted description--you can do really cool stuff with it; I just haven't done anything with it yet.
  • foreach loop: for (Type thing : Collection things) { /* do stuff */ } pretty much explains it. It handles the iteration for you, and (I think) the right hand of the for loop (after the colon) can be anything that implements Iterable.

Java 6, I'm not as knowledgeable about. But Java 5 is certainly an improvement--it makes things less wordy, although most of the changes are skin-deep; the compiler implements generics as implicit casts (which are added to the class files), and the foreach loop with an implicit iterator. And of course boxing/unboxing slows things down too. But it's prettier, and besides, if you're using Java you probably already have a handle on where the performance is good and where it suffers.

Bogus Link in website (2, Informative)

Fujisawa Sensei (207127) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194568)

From Sun's Website:
Java SE 6 is the current major release of the Java SE platform, with full support from NetBeans IDE 5.5. Sun endeavors to foster the highest level of transparency and collaboration on the platform with the Java community through Project JDK 6, resulting in the following key features. Sun's Java Multi-Platform Support, Training, and Certification can provide you the peace of mind to develop and deploy Java solutions with confidence.

Download the Java SE 6 Release Candidate

Sun says in one place its current, but links a Release Candidate in the early access site. But if you go to the J2SE Download page: http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index.jsp/ [sun.com] There is a link to Java 6.

No longer Java TWO SE (2, Informative)

gumpish (682245) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195292)

But if you go to the J2SE Download page: http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index.jsp/ [sun.com] There is a link to Java 6.


Please note that it is no longer "J2SE", it's just Java SE. (As per the URL you pasted in your post.)

Sadly the marketroids still insist on calling it Java SE 6 and not Java SE 1.6 (which it is), but at least today we're better off than with Tiger, which was Java 2 SE 5 (aka 1.5)

GPL? (1, Redundant)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194644)

What happened to Sun releasing Java under the GPL? I'm still getting a click-wrap license agreement here...

Re:GPL? (4, Informative)

Golthar (162696) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194744)

See also here [sun.com]

"Q:
When will you finish open sourcing the JDK? What is the timeline?
A:
We expect to release a fully buildable JDK based almost completely on open-sourced code in the first half of 2007"

Re:GPL? (1)

Pyrex5000 (1038438) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194938)

According to Wikipedia, "The release of the complete sources under GPL is expected in the first quarter of 2007."

you'll know it when it happens (1)

idlake (850372) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195210)

They say they will be releasing parts over the next few months. The first true open source release will come with Java 7. Sun promised GPL with a linking exception; I'd wait and see whether they actually deliver or whether there are some unforeseen issues with it.

You'll know it when it happens, because that's when Linux distributions will start including it in their "free" portions. Until then, the announcement is meaningless.

Re:you'll know it when it happens (1)

Decaff (42676) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195836)

You'll know it when it happens, because that's when Linux distributions will start including it in their "free" portions. Until then, the announcement is meaningless.

That is a bit extreme, perhaps?

Re:you'll know it when it happens (1)

idlake (850372) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195874)

No, it's not "extreme". If you want to use Java "for free", you can do so already right now. The purpose of the open source release is to allow integration into FOSS distributions, and to encourage contributions. Until that actually happens, any Java open source license makes no difference.

Also, just because Sun says that they are going to do it doesn't mean it's going to go through without problems.

Re:you'll know it when it happens (1)

Decaff (42676) | more than 7 years ago | (#17196134)

Also, just because Sun says that they are going to do it doesn't mean it's going to go through without problems.

My point was that it was extreme to say that say that claims that Java will be open sourced are "meaningless".

If Sun say they are going to do it, they are going to do it, problems or not. Their statement that they are doing this is hardly "meaningless".

Re:you'll know it when it happens (2)

idlake (850372) | more than 7 years ago | (#17199560)

If Sun say they are going to do it, they are going to do it, problems or not. Their statement that they are doing this is hardly "meaningless".

They are "meaningless" in that nothing changes for users until they actually deliver.

And that interpretation is already assuming that they are actually being honest and that no problems crop up. Given what happened with Java standardization and the tricks they have been playing with Solaris, Sun has little credibility when it comes to open source.

Re:you'll know it when it happens (1)

Decaff (42676) | more than 7 years ago | (#17200198)

They are "meaningless" in that nothing changes for users until they actually deliver.

Not true, of course. It means that many developers who want to stick with open source can work with Java knowing that in a matter of months, it will be open. They can change policies now.

And that interpretation is already assuming that they are actually being honest and that no problems crop up. Given what happened with Java standardization and the tricks they have been playing with Solaris, Sun has little credibility when it comes to open source.

Well, firstly, Solaris is certainly open source, and secondly, they have been declared not just credible when it comes to open source, but more credible than any other company by Richard Stallman. I quote: "Sun will have contributed more than any other company to free software." I think that on such matters, he knows what he is talking about. He does not think this announcement is meaningless. Neither to Tim O'Reilly, founder of O'Reilly books, or Mark Shuttleworth, founder of Ubuntu.

Re:you'll know it when it happens (0)

idlake (850372) | more than 7 years ago | (#17200900)

Not true, of course. It means that many developers who want to stick with open source can work with Java knowing that in a matter of months, it will be open. They can change policies now.

Just like they "knew" that when Sun announce they were going for ISO or ECMA standardization, Java would be an ISO or ECMA standard? I don't think so. A press release is not a legally binding contract. Java will be open source once it has been released under that license, not a second sooner.

Well, firstly, Solaris is certainly open source,

Really? All of it? Or just some of it? Who can even tell.

I quote: "Sun will have contributed more than any other company to free software."

Yes, RMS is saying that after they have done the open source release, then that will be true. And it doesn't mean that anybody has to like Sun anymore than before. Sun made a strategic decision; you can bet that if they can screw other open source projects, they still will.

about time (4, Interesting)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194660)

You can finally have apps that look alot more like win32 or gnome apps without using swt or some other less standard api. Also this release uses some Apple technology with their jdk by offering dynamic class loading. Startups should be alot faster. This and java7 which is already in development should be really exciting. Sun has been putting out alot of java releases recently due to .NET and competition is good.

New features with specification references (5, Informative)

nyri (132206) | more than 7 years ago | (#17194664)

The real specification of new features is available at JSR 270 [jcp.org].

The scripting support is specified at JSR 223 [jcp.org].

Here are some additional new features:
  • New database connection API, JDBC 4.0: JSR 221 [jcp.org]
  • New version of web services API, JAX-WS 2.0: JSR 224 [jcp.org]


BTW, why isn't this on the front page? All the fussing about the possible new license was there but not the product publishment itself.

Re:New features with specification references (1)

Golthar (162696) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195028)

Java SE 6 is not yet the fully open source version.
Expect the entire Java SE to be GPL by early 2007
"http://www.sun.com/software/opensource/java/faq.j sp"

Re:New features with specification references (1)

Tim C (15259) | more than 7 years ago | (#17201132)

BTW, why isn't this on the front page? All the fussing about the possible new license was there but not the product publishment itself.

One could almost conclude that slashdot (or at least its editors) care more about the licence that a piece of software is released under, than the software itself.

Great! (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17194674)

Congratulations to all the hard working people at Sun, and those outside who contributed (I'm one of them).

I tend to get +5 for these kind of posts, so this time I'll post anonymously to prevent karma wh:

As usual, InfoQ [infoq.com] has a nice writeup with good links.
Sun has a confusing number of portal sites for news and communities, but the two most lively ones are probably java.net [java.net] and Planet JDK [planetjdk.org].

Remember that Java 6 is not GPL, the decision to go GPL came too late in the development phase, only JDK7 is GPL. But you can get JDK6 and JDK7 is under the Research Licence from Subversion, a good blog with info about how and where is here [java.net].

Funny I am still with jdk 1.4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17194946)

...so I suspect I will wait java until java 2.0 is out...
but wait... j2see is java 2.0, isn't it?
Sun numbers are so confusing....:)

Re:Funny I am still with jdk 1.4 (3, Interesting)

gumpish (682245) | more than 7 years ago | (#17195334)

It's not J2SE anymore. Now it's just Java SE. (Although we still have the 5 (but really 1.5), 6 (but really 1.6) silliness, but it's a step in the right direction.

Re:Funny I am still with jdk 1.4 (2, Interesting)

tomservo84 (990233) | more than 7 years ago | (#17196388)

(Although we still have the 5 (but really 1.5), 6 (but really 1.6) silliness, but it's a step in the right direction.
It goes right along with Solaris 8 = SunOS 5.8, Solaris 10 = SunOS 5.10, etc., etc....it must be a Sun-ism.

Re:Funny I am still with jdk 1.4 (1)

innot (582843) | more than 7 years ago | (#17197568)

....it must be a Sun-ism.

Not really. Dropping major version numbers has been done a long time before Sun thought about it. For example GNU Emacs [wikipedia.org] lost its major number when it went from 1.12.xx to 13.something in 1985

Re:Funny I am still with jdk 1.4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17201200)

Actually its *really* 6, not 1.6...

Re:Funny I am still with jdk 1.4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17195366)

Welcome to the world of java where jdks/jres are not backwards compatible, forwards compatible, or even compatible with themselves.

Is JBoss compatible with it? (1)

Lucas.Langa (922843) | more than 7 years ago | (#17196542)

Is it?

Re:Is JBoss compatible with it? (3, Informative)

jonabbey (2498) | more than 7 years ago | (#17196592)

I'm sure that it is. Java's backwards compatibility has always been pretty spectacular. They've got millions of lines of unit-test code that they test new releases against, in addition to major applications which get explicit testing. JBoss is about as major an application as you'll find.

Good release, but real fun stuff in Java 7 (4, Insightful)

caseih (160668) | more than 7 years ago | (#17198132)

Java 6 has made great strides in many areas, including speed, Swing LAF, etc. It now uses GTK theme engines (works with all themes) to allow swing apps to look more like GTK apps. The imitation is still very imperfect, but it's much improved over the old, crappy, Metal look. I believe generics have been improved some in 6, and I think, if I recall correctly, 6 marks the beginning of non-backwards compatible changes to the JVM itself to pave the way for a lot of exciting new features in Java 7, the most notable will the inclusion (finally) of delegates, making GUI event programming a lot cleaner. It's possible that with Java 7 finally on feature parity with .NET, someone could write a .NET to JVM translator, such as the reverse of ikvm, to allow C# code to be executed on a clean, GPLd Java stack. I still prefer C# to Java at this point, and it would be nice to have the difference between the two stacks (technologically anyway) be insignificant, hopefully helping developers who would choose .NET choose the now safer Java alternative. .NET really did get a jump on Java technologically up until now. It's better in several ways including the generics model, delegates, and being able to support a number of languages including python (jpython for JVM seems to be stalled). Java 7 will start to change all that. Sun's really proved they are listening to the community. Either that or .NET really got them scared.

Dynamic language support ? (1)

Nicolay77 (258497) | more than 7 years ago | (#17198272)

If I can run a dialect of Lisp with all the speed of the JVM, then I'm sold.

Re:Dynamic language support ? (1)

curunir (98273) | more than 7 years ago | (#17201312)

If all you want is to run LISP with Java's speed, JDK 1.6 doesn't really change anything for you. There have been LISP implemntations (here are a couple [virtual-void.net] of options [armedbear.org]) for some time now.

What JSR-223 [java.net] means is that it's now possible to integrate scripting languages into Java programs without having to use a project-specific API. As far as I can tell, the only LISP(ish) implementation that supports JSR-223 is SISC [sourceforge.net]. This means that you can write your Java in such a way that you can very simply switch scripting language or framework without much modification to your Java code. It also means there is a standard way for scripting languages to interact with a running Java program. This is nice for anyone who wants to write a hybrid application where some parts naturally lend themselves to being implemented in Java and some parts don't.

Major speedup for FP-math intensive apps. (2, Informative)

Thorgal (3103) | more than 7 years ago | (#17199792)

What I don't see mentioned here is a significant performance improvement that is especially pronounced in FP-math intensive code. Take a look at some of the timings obtained with JatMark [wfmh.org.pl] benchmark - typically it finishes in half the time (results in seconds):
  • 206 - Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.4GHz)/DDR2@667Mhz/Linux 2.6.18.3 #5 SMP/Sun JDK 1.6.0-rc-b104
  • 223 - Opteron 275 2.2GHz/Linux 2.6.11.12-grsec/Sun JDK 1.6.0-beta-b59g
  • 349 - Pentium M 730 (1.6Ghz)/DDR2@400Mhz/Linux 2.6.15-cK1/Sun JDK 1.6.0-beta-b59g
  • 401 - Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.4GHz)/DDR2@667Mhz/Linux 2.6.18.3 #5 SMP/Sun JDK 1.5.0_05-b05
  • 408 - Opteron 275 2.2GHz/Linux 2.6.11.12-grsec/Sun JDK 1.5.0_01-b08
  • 415 - Opteron 250 2.4GHz (dual)/Linux 2.6.8/Sun JDK 1.5.0-b63
  • 596 - Pentium M 730 (1.6Ghz)/DDR2@400Mhz/Linux 2.6.15-cK1/Sun JDK 1.5.0_06-b05
Full results table [wfmh.org.pl].

.NET vs Java (1)

Shados (741919) | more than 7 years ago | (#17201800)

No no, not a flame at one being better than the other.

Just pointing out...since Java came out and Microsoft was kicked out of the field, having to come up with its own "copy", things have gotten quite interesting for developers...

You have Java and .NET fighting it out, seeing which can pump out the most solid platform, and it just improves on both side at lightning speed... we had .NET 3.0 recently (Workflow foundation ::DROOLS::) and now this. Its great!

At the same time, the other languages are also forced to evolve to keep up, giving us little gems like Rails.

I am a happy camper.

No Front Page? (1)

Lord Kestrel (91395) | more than 7 years ago | (#17202144)

Why didn't this make the front page? It's certainly a far more interesting thing for nerds than an article about bloggers.
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