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Java 8 Delayed To Fix Security

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the projected-release-2047 dept.

Java 135

mikejuk writes "Java Development Kit 8, planned for September 2013, is being delayed until next year because of 'a renewed focus on security.' Java has been having security publicity problems recently, but Oracle now seems to be taking them more seriously. Mark Reinhold, chief architect of the Java platform group, said, 'Maintaining the security of the Java Platform always takes priority over developing new features, and so these efforts have inevitably taken engineers away from working on Java 8.' The major change still to be made to Java 8 is Project Lambda, which Reinhold says is 'the sole driving feature of the release.' He laid out alternatives, such as dropping Lambda from this release, but said Oracle has decided instead to wait until Lambda is ready. The revised schedule for JDK 8 has a developer preview scheduled for September, a release candidate scheduled for January 2014, and general availablity scheduled for March 2014. The delay means that Java SE 9 will probably be released in early 2016, rather than late 2015."

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Always the goal (2)

Murdoch5 (1563847) | about 2 years ago | (#43494289)

The goal should be to provide the best security possible with out getting in the way of the programmer. I'm confused on what the focus was before :S

Re:Always the goal (1)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#43494379)

Their previous focus was providing the best submarine screendoor to keep out the oceans of malware.

Re:Always the goal (1)

ackthpt (218170) | about 2 years ago | (#43494433)

Their previous focus was providing the best submarine screendoor to keep out the oceans of malware.

They must have brought in a project manager from Redmond.

Re:Always the goal (5, Insightful)

Joce640k (829181) | about 2 years ago | (#43494513)

I think the main focus is on getting people to install the Ask Toolbar.

The more updates they can push out, the more chance there is of somebody slipping up and installing it by mistake.

Re:Always the goal (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43494619)

I just did the latest update today and instead of the Ask Toolbar is was some McAfee software. Same old shit. You'd think a billion dollar company wouldn't have to resort to cheap tricks like this.

Re:Always the goal (3, Funny)

Tarlus (1000874) | about 2 years ago | (#43494943)

You'd think a billion dollar company wouldn't have to resort to cheap tricks like this.

* Looks pointedly at Adobe *

Re:Always the goal (1)

antdude (79039) | about 2 years ago | (#43496581)

And many other companies. :(

Re:Always the goal (2)

game kid (805301) | about 2 years ago | (#43495201)

Or maybe that's why they're a billion dollar company. :)

Re:Always the goal (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43495381)

I just did the latest update today and instead of the Ask Toolbar is was some McAfee software. Same old shit. You'd think a billion dollar company wouldn't have to resort to cheap tricks like this.

Would be even funnier if McAfee recognized Java as mal-ware.

Re:Always the goal (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43497291)

For Java to be considered good stuff by McAfee it shouldn't be named after a coffee bean, but a bath salt brand instead

Re:Always the goal (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43495303)

I totally agree with you, and more than just pushing the toolbar to be installed
The day I heard that Oracle was taking over, I knew it was going to go down hill, Oracle is a corporation, it won't give a damn about people, unless there is money involved (lots of it)
And for those who are saying to get rid of the applet, I find you extremely selfish and inconsiderate.

I am still using applets for x, y reason, I do need those applets.
I think Oracle is pushing to make "JAVA" payable that's the only way they'll be happy.

One think we all need to consider is that these large corporations all work hand in hand don't believe the little wars you hear about on the news it's nothing but a smoke screen.
Anyway they are all after two things, Money + control over the users, it has nothing whatsoever to do with "Security" They say you have the choice to enable the plugin but even if you enable it it's somehow is still disabled or blocked.

They believe we are dumb and stupid.
I have had enough, of Oracle, Mozilla, Microsoft and all of them.

Re:Always the goal (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43495579)

The day I heard that Oracle was taking over, I knew it was going to go down hill, Oracle is a corporation, it won't give a damn about people, unless there is money involved (lots of it)

That's why I liked it when Sun had it. They weren't a corporation.

Re:Always the goal (2)

ThatsNotPudding (1045640) | about 2 years ago | (#43495335)

I think the main focus is on getting people to install the Ask Toolbar.

The more updates they can push out, the more chance there is of somebody slipping up and installing it by mistake.

At least in the EU, I'm really surprised this crap isn't illegal (bundling snare ware with security updates).

Re:Always the goal (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43496771)

Ah, well that is the trick. Oracle (and Sun before them) doesn't DO security updates. They don't understand what patch even means. They only do full versions. So when you go from say 1.7.0_11 to 1.7.0_21, you are actually uninstalling an entire version of their runtime and installing a new one. People wouldn't put up with that shit from Microsoft. Heck, even Adobe does patches for Reader much of the time now (although they do a mysterious full in there once in awhile too). The worst part is that they don't maintain complete backward compatibility with the rest of the 1.7.0 or 1.6.0 line. Just about every "update" breaks existing code (not all of it, but enough to be a real problem in a large enterprise). They add and remove features willy-nilly in these updates. They just don't understand software version management and patching at all.

Re:Always the goal (1)

roman_mir (125474) | about 2 years ago | (#43495341)

They should really rename that piece of garbage software into "Larry Ellison's pocket lint he can't throw away" bar.

Re:Always the goal (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43494521)

The goal should be to provide the best security possible with out getting in the way of the programmer. I'm confused on what the focus was before :S

It is their responsibility to provide the best security possible. They suck at it.

Re:Always the goal (1)

Tarlus (1000874) | about 2 years ago | (#43494913)

I'm confused on what the focus was before :S

Sure as hell wasn't security.

Re:Always the goal (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 2 years ago | (#43495241)

Of course not.

Oracle's corporate focus comes down to only two directions: this one [google.com] , and this one [wikipedia.org] .

There is truly no other focus for them.

Incorrect headline. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43494293)

It really should say Java 8 canceled to fix security.

Re:Incorrect headline. (3, Insightful)

kthreadd (1558445) | about 2 years ago | (#43494319)

What they should really do is reconsider if applets really is that important anymore and just scrap the concept completely. At least that's where the problem seams to be most of the time.

Re:Incorrect headline. (2)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#43494511)

At the very least it should be either an optional (with the default set to "no") or separate install. There are still some systems that require it. I have an old HP JetDirect I still use to put an even older HP LaserJet 4 on our network, and it's interface is a Java applet.

Re:Incorrect headline. (2)

wiredlogic (135348) | about 2 years ago | (#43495011)

You can telnet into a JetDirect card to control it without the fancy web interface. Bonus if you make an application to simplify the process.

Re:Incorrect headline. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43494793)

Agree 100%. Consider that applets were created back when Flash didn't exist, HTML 5 wasn't even a thought in someone's head and Javascript was a toy.

They've been superseded and should be dropped completely. A big step to improving security is simplifying the codebase.

It's dependency e.g. in Danske Bank (1)

ciantic (626550) | about 2 years ago | (#43494815)

Danske Bank requires Java browser plugin to access their online banking, because it supposedly "enhances security".

In reality: Online payment's have become nightmare to do cause it frequently crashes during payment, and it's not always clear how you can restart only the payment process to avoid doing duplicate order to web store.

For their defense I can say that after last bug/update cycles of Java they seem to have become so frustrated also that they've decided to scrap that requirement, and in few months or so they too are removing the Java requirement!

There is probably many crucial systems still relying on that browser plugin support, unfortunately.

Re:It's dependency e.g. in Danske Bank (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43494983)

Danske Bank requires Java browser

Ya know, that should be reason #1 to drop any contact with said bank. Space them. Now.

Java applets are not acceptable. Do not use them. Stay away from anyone that tries to foist applets on you. Fire anyone that suggests their use.

Just stop it. Java applets are fail. Stop doing this to people.

Re:It's dependency e.g. in Danske Bank (1)

semi-extrinsic (1997002) | about 2 years ago | (#43495563)

The problem then is that all banks use Java. My bank is one of few that has a Java-free option, but that requires me to switch cellphone operator. (I'm Norwegian, but I gather Denmark is the same.)

Re:It's dependency e.g. in Danske Bank (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43496797)

Oh that's bad. :-(

Fortunately the Swedish banks have been fairly good in comparison. I don't think anyone of them requires Java. Some of them require a local application if you want to use their e-identification functionality, but you can often use standalone second factor authentication as well.

Re:It's dependency e.g. in Danske Bank (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | about 2 years ago | (#43496735)

I'm pretty sure that bank would switch to something more sane if Java 8 came out with no support whatsoever for applets.

Re:Incorrect headline. (2)

bored (40072) | about 2 years ago | (#43495235)

The problem is _WHERE_ java is actually used. For the most part that is "enterprise software" and embedded gear. At work its pretty much unavoidable, from the IP KVM's, and fibre switches with their java applets to enterprise middleware running all over the place. Its apparent what all those java developers have been doing for the last decade.

In many cases, simple HTML applications would have been much better but some organization hired a java programmer to write the back-end and the front-end ended up being java too. I can't tell you how often I've seen something as simple as a little monitoring app with a dozen configuration options that requires java and 500MB of memory to retrieve a dozen log messages a day and show a couple blinking lights.

For the home user its pretty easy to avoid java. public web sites rarely have java applets (can't even remember the last one I saw). The few consumer java applications almost always have competitors that are just as good (and generally perform better anyway). I refused to install java on my home machines ~7-8 years ago. I haven't missed it. Flash is nearly there too.

So in many ways, an IT guy could hide/avoid a lot of the java problems by disallowing java applets at the firewall/web proxy level. Personally, if I were a CTO or similar I would include a platform/java questionnaire in my RFP/purchasing matrix and deduct points if the item has java.

It might be possible to write good java applications, but from what i've seen applications written in java seem to be the lowest quality ones. Whether that is some kind of self selection process for java programmers, development managers, or something fundamental in the technology I can't say, but it does appear to be there.

Re:Incorrect headline. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43495437)

Don't forget everything Android.

Re:Incorrect headline. (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | about 2 years ago | (#43496841)

Of course there will be a transition phase where those vendors will have to change their behavior, but that's absolutely doable. People said the same thing about Flash, but it turns out that it wasn't much of a problem.

Re:Incorrect headline. (1)

togofspookware (464119) | about 2 years ago | (#43497517)

It makes me a bit sad that Java in the browser never really took off to the extent that JavaScript did. These days we have people coming up with monstrosities like asm.js to make it possible to write fast, cross-platform applications, whereas the JVM is a compiler target that's been much better suited to the task for a decade and a half. I suppose its downfall was in its proprietary nature, lack of integration with the DOM, and slow start-up time. If the browsers had included an easily sandboxed subset of the JRE (simply leaving out any classes that could possibly interact with the rest of your system, for starters) in place of JavaScript I think frontend web development would be a lot nicer today. At the time, though, I doubt that Sun would have allowed such a thing. :(

Hindsight FTW.

Re:Incorrect headline. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43494553)

It really should say Java 8 canceled to fix security.

They should update their version number with every security release so they can keep up with Chrome and Firefox.

Re:Incorrect headline. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43494877)

There's not enough space on your computer screen for that revision number.

Re:Incorrect headline. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43495263)

Forget the screen, most processors can't handle numbers that large!~

Re:Incorrect headline. (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 2 years ago | (#43495301)

They should update their version number with every security release so they can keep up with Chrome and Firefox.

I'm sorry, but I'm not turning on hugepages support on my desktop just to read a version number.

Hmm... (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 2 years ago | (#43494309)

Doesn't' a 'renewed' focus on security imply the existence of a focus on security at some prior point in time?

Sure, the JVM itself always got a reasonable amount of love, and the historically-comical nature of Windows security took some of the heat off browser plugins; but has the 'well, if we just add a sandbox, we can take something that works fairly well for instruction-set and OS abstraction of trusted workloads and adapt it to the 'run any old shit the internet throws at you' use case ever been anything but a bad idea waiting to bite?

Re:Hmm... (1)

gigaherz (2653757) | about 2 years ago | (#43494731)

They mean from before they acquired it from SUN.

Re:Hmm... (1)

rudy_wayne (414635) | about 2 years ago | (#43495299)

Doesn't' a 'renewed' focus on security imply the existence of a focus on security at some prior point in time?

a "renewed" focus on security implies that they were focused on security but then quit, and now are going back to it. So the real question is why did they abandon the focus on security.

Of course, the obvious answer is that there never was any focus on security and now saying that they have a "renewed focus on security" is 100% pure Public Relations Bullshit.

Re:Hmm... (1)

Tharkkun (2605613) | about 2 years ago | (#43497873)

Doesn't' a 'renewed' focus on security imply the existence of a focus on security at some prior point in time?

a "renewed" focus on security implies that they were focused on security but then quit, and now are going back to it. So the real question is why did they abandon the focus on security.

Of course, the obvious answer is that there never was any focus on security and now saying that they have a "renewed focus on security" is 100% pure Public Relations Bullshit.

I'm sure the developers from Sun stopped caring after they all nearly lost their jobs to bankruptcy. Then they were purchased by Oracle and as any big company transition happens, they lose certain perks. It sounds like management has put their foot down and told people to fix their shit.

The only REAL security is a good HOST file... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43494363)

A corrupt slashdot luser has pentrated the moderation system to downmod all my posts while impersonating me.

Nearly 230++ times that I know of @ this point for all of March/April 2013 so far, & others here have told you to stop - take the hint, lunatic (leave slashdot)...

Sorry folks - but whoever the nutjob is that's attempting to impersonate me, & upset the rest of you as well, has SERIOUS mental issues, no questions asked! I must've gotten the better of him + seriously "gotten his goat" in doing so in a technical debate & his "geek angst" @ losing to me has him doing the:


A.) $10,000 challenges, ala (where the imposter actually TRACKED + LISTED the # of times he's done this no less, & where I get the 230 or so times I noted above) -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3585795&cid=43285307 [slashdot.org]


B.) Reposting OLD + possibly altered models - (this I haven't checked on as to altering the veracity of the info. being changed) of posts of mine from the past here


(Albeit massively repeatedly thru all threads on /. this March/April 2013 nearly in its entirety thusfar).

* Personally, I'm surprised the moderation staff here hasn't just "blocked out" his network range yet honestly!

(They know it's NOT the same as my own as well, especially after THIS post of mine, which they CAN see the IP range I am coming out of to compare with the ac spamming troll doing the above...).


P.S.=> Again/Stressing it: NO guys - it is NOT me doing it, as I wouldn't waste that much time on such trivial b.s. like a kid might...

Plus, I only post where hosts file usage is on topic or appropriate for a solution & certainly NOT IN EVERY POST ON SLASHDOT (like the nutcase trying to "impersonate me" is doing for nearly all of March/April now, & 230++ times that I know of @ least)... apk

P.S.=> here is CORRECT host file information just to piss off the insane lunatic troll:


21++ ADVANTAGES OF CUSTOM HOSTS FILES (how/what/when/where/why):

Over AdBlock & DNS Servers ALONE 4 Security, Speed, Reliability, & Anonymity (to an extent vs. DNSBL's + DNS request logs).

1.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program). A truly "multi-platform" UNIVERSAL solution for added speed, security, reliability, & even anonymity to an extent (vs. DNS request logs + DNSBL's you feel are unjust hosts get you past/around).

2.) Adblock blocks ads? Well, not anymore & certainly not as well by default, apparently, lol - see below:

Adblock Plus To Offer 'Acceptable Ads' Option

http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/12/12/2213233/adblock-plus-to-offer-acceptable-ads-option [slashdot.org] )

AND, in only browsers & their subprogram families (ala email like Thunderbird for FireFox/Mozilla products (use same gecko & xulrunner engines)), but not all, or, all independent email clients, like Outlook, Outlook Express, OR Window "LIVE" mail (for example(s)) - there's many more like EUDORA & others I've used over time that AdBlock just DOES NOT COVER... period.

Disclaimer: Opera now also has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF or Chrome etc..

3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF (non-mozilla/gecko engine based) family based wares, So AdBlock doesn't protect email programs like Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows "LIVE" mail & others like them (EUDORA etc./et al), Hosts files do. THIS IS GOOD VS. SPAM MAIL or MAILS THAT BEAR MALICIOUS SCRIPT, or, THAT POINT TO MALICIOUS SCRIPT VIA URLS etc.

4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 5-7 next below).

5.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, OR make you reach them faster since you resolve host-domain names LOCALLY w/ hosts out of cached memory, hosts do ALL of those things (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/082908-kaminsky-flaw-prompts-dns-server.html [networkworld.com] for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions (in-addr.arpa) via NSLOOKUP, PINGS (ping -a in Windows), &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).

* NOW - Some folks MAY think that putting an IP address alone into your browser's address bar will be enough, so why bother with HOSTS, right? WRONG - Putting IP address in your browser won't always work IS WHY. Some IP adresses host several domains & need the site name to give you the right page you're after is why. So for some sites only the HOSTS file option will work!

6.) Hosts files don't eat up CPU cycles (or ELECTRICITY) like AdBlock does while it parses a webpages' content, nor as much as a DNS server does while it runs. HOSTS file are merely a FILTER for the kernel mode/PnP TCP/IP subsystem, which runs FAR FASTER & MORE EFFICIENTLY than any ring 3/rpl3/usermode app can since hosts files run in MORE EFFICIENT & FASTER Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode operations acting merely as a filter for the IP stack (via the "Plug-N-Play" designed IP stack in Windows) vs. SLOWER & LESS EFFICIENT Ring 3/RPL 3/Usermode operations (which webbrowsers run in + their addons like AdBlock slow down even MORESO due to their parsing operations).

7.) HOSTS files will allow you to get to sites you like, via hardcoding your favs into a HOSTS file, FAR faster than remote DNS servers can by FAR (by saving the roundtrip inquiry time to a DNS server, typically 30-100's of ms, vs. 7-10ms HardDisk speed of access/seek + SSD seek in ns, & back to you - hosts resolutions of IP address for host-domain names is FAR faster...). Hosts are only a filter for an already fast & efficient IP stack, no more layered b.s. (remote OR local). Hosts eat less CPU, RAM, I/O in other forms, + electricity than a locally running DNS server easily, and less than a local DNS program on a single PC. Fact. Hosts are easier to setup & maintain too.

8.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:


http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org]
  http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ [someonewhocares.org]
  http://hostsfile.org/hosts.html [hostsfile.org]
  http://hostsfile.mine.nu/downloads/ [hostsfile.mine.nu]
  http://hosts-file.net/?s=Download [hosts-file.net]
  https://zeustracker.abuse.ch/monitor.php?filter=online [abuse.ch]
  https://spyeyetracker.abuse.ch/monitor.php [abuse.ch]
  http://ddanchev.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]
  http://www.malware.com.br/lists.shtml [malware.com.br]
  http://www.stopbadware.org/ [stopbadware.org]
Spybot "Search & Destroy" IMMUNIZE feature (fortifies HOSTS files with KNOWN bad servers blocked)

And yes: Even SLASHDOT &/or The Register help!

(Via articles on security (when the source articles they use are "detailed" that is, & list the servers/sites involved in attempting to bushwhack others online that is... not ALL do!)).

2 examples thereof in the past I have used, & noted it there, are/were:

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1898692&cid=34473398 [slashdot.org]
  http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1896216&cid=34458500 [slashdot.org]

9.) AdBlock & DNS servers are programs, and subject to bugs programs can get. Hosts files are merely a filter and not a program, thus not subject to bugs of the nature just discussed.

10.) HOSTS files protect you vs. DNS-poisoning &/or the Kaminsky flaw in DNS servers, and allow you to get to sites reliably vs. things like the Chinese are doing to DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders [slashdot.org]

11.) HOSTS files are EASILY user controlled, obtained (for reliable ones -> http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org] ) & edited too, via texteditors like Windows notepad.exe or Linux nano (etc.)

12.) With Adblock you had better be able to code javascript to play with its code (to customize it better than the GUI front does @ least). With hosts you don't even need source to control it (edit, update, delete, insert of new entries via a text editor).

13.) Hosts files are easily secured via using MAC/ACL (even moreso "automagically" for Vista, 7/Server 2008 + beyond by UAC by default) &/or Read-Only attributes applied.

14.) Custom HOSTS files also speed you up, unlike anonymous proxy servers systems variations (like TOR, or other "highly anonymous" proxy server list servers typically do, in the severe speed hit they often have a cost in) either via "hardcoding" your fav. sites into your hosts file (avoids DNS servers, totally) OR blocking out adbanners - see this below for evidence of that:


US Military Blocks Websites To Free Up Bandwidth:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/03/16/0416238/US-Military-Blocks-Websites-To-Free-Up-Bandwidth [slashdot.org]

(Yes, even the US Military used this type of technique... because IT WORKS! Most of what they blocked? Ad banners ala doubleclick etc.)


Adbanners slow you down & consume your bandwidth YOU pay for:

ADBANNERS SLOW DOWN THE WEB: -> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/11/30/166218 [slashdot.org]


And people do NOT LIKE ads on the web:

PEOPLE DISLIKE ADBANNERS: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/04/02/0058247.shtml [slashdot.org]


As well as this:

Users Know Advertisers Watch Them, and Hate It:

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/04/02/0058247.shtml [slashdot.org]


Even WORSE still, is this:

Advertising Network Caught History Stealing:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/07/22/156225/Advertising-Network-Caught-History-Stealing [slashdot.org]


15.) HOSTS files usage lets you avoid being charged on some ISP/BSP's (OR phone providers) "pay as you use" policy http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/08/2012243/FCC-Approving-Pay-As-You-Go-Internet-Plans [slashdot.org] , because you are using less bandwidth (& go faster doing so no less) by NOT hauling in adbanner content and processing it (which can lead to infestation by malware/malicious script, in & of itself -> http://apcmag.com/microsoft_apologises_for_serving_malware.htm [apcmag.com] ).

16.) If/when ISP/BSP's decide to go to -> FCC Approving Pay-As-You-Go Internet Plans: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/08/2012243/FCC-Approving-Pay-As-You-Go-Internet-Plans [slashdot.org] your internet bill will go DOWN if you use a HOSTS file for blocking adbanners as well as maliciously scripted hacker/cracker malware maker sites too (after all - it's your money & time online downloading adbanner content & processing it)

Plus, your adbanner content? Well, it may also be hijacked with malicious code too mind you:


Yahoo, Microsoft's Bing display toxic ads:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/16/bing_yahoo_malware_ads/ [theregister.co.uk]


Malware torrent delivered over Google, Yahoo! ad services:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/24/malware_ads_google_yahoo/ [theregister.co.uk]


Google's DoubleClick spreads malicious ads (again):

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/24/doubleclick_distributes_malware/ [theregister.co.uk]


Rogue ads infiltrate Expedia and Rhapsody:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/30/excite_and_rhapsody_rogue_ads/ [theregister.co.uk]


Google sponsored links caught punting malware:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/16/google_sponsored_links/ [theregister.co.uk]


DoubleClick caught supplying malware-tainted ads:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/13/doubleclick_distributes_malware/ [theregister.co.uk]


Yahoo feeds Trojan-laced ads to MySpace and PhotoBucket users:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/11/yahoo_serves_12million_malware_ads/ [theregister.co.uk]


Real Media attacks real people via RealPlayer:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/23/real_media_serves_malware/ [theregister.co.uk]


Ad networks owned by Google, Microsoft serve malware:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/13/doubleclick_msn_malware_attacks/ [theregister.co.uk]


Attacks Targeting Classified Ad Sites Surge:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/02/02/1433210/Attacks-Targeting-Classified-Ad-Sites-Surge [slashdot.org]


Hackers Respond To Help Wanted Ads With Malware:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/01/20/0228258/Hackers-Respond-To-Help-Wanted-Ads-With-Malware [slashdot.org]


Hackers Use Banner Ads on Major Sites to Hijack Your PC:

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2007/11/doubleclick [wired.com]


Ruskie gang hijacks Microsoft network to push penis pills:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/12/microsoft_ips_hijacked/ [theregister.co.uk]


Major ISPs Injecting Ads, Vulnerabilities Into Web:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/04/19/2148215.shtml [slashdot.org]


Two Major Ad Networks Found Serving Malware:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/12/13/0128249/Two-Major-Ad-Networks-Found-Serving-Malware [slashdot.org]



http://it.slashdot.org/story/09/06/15/2056219/The-Next-Ad-You-Click-May-Be-a-Virus [slashdot.org]



http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/09/13/2346229 [slashdot.org]



http://apcmag.com/microsoft_apologises_for_serving_malware.htm [apcmag.com]


ISP's INJECTING ADS AND ERRORS INTO THE WEB: -> http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/04/19/2148215.shtml [slashdot.org]


ADOBE FLASH ADS INJECTING MALWARE INTO THE NET: http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/20/0029220&from=rss [slashdot.org]


London Stock Exchange Web Site Serving Malware:

http://www.securityweek.com/london-stock-exchange-web-site-serving-malware [securityweek.com]


Spotify splattered with malware-tainted ads:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/25/spotify_malvertisement_attack/ [theregister.co.uk]


As my list "multiple evidences thereof" as to adbanners & viruses + the fact they slow you down & cost you more (from reputable & reliable sources no less)).

17.) Per point #16, a way to save some money: ANDROID phones can also use the HOSTS FILE TO KEEP DOWN BILLABLE TIME ONLINE, vs. adbanners or malware such as this:


Infected Androids Run Up Big Texting Bills:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/03/01/0041203/Infected-Androids-Run-Up-Big-Texting-Bills [slashdot.org]


AND, for protection vs. other "botnets" migrating from the PC world, to "smartphones" such as ZITMO (a ZEUS botnet variant):

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=ZITMO&btnG=Google+Search [google.com]


It's easily done too, via the ADB dev. tool, & mounting ANDROID OS' system mountpoint for system/etc as READ + WRITE/ADMIN-ROOT PERMISSIONS, then copying your new custom HOSTS over the old one using ADB PULL/ADB PUSH to do so (otherwise ANDROID complains of "this file cannot be overwritten on production models of this Operating System", or something very along those lines - this way gets you around that annoyance along with you possibly having to clear some space there yourself if you packed it with things!).

18.) Bad news: ADBLOCK CAN BE DETECTED FOR: See here on that note -> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-is-devastating-to-the-sites-you-love.ars [arstechnica.com]

HOSTS files are NOT THAT EASILY "webbug" BLOCKABLE by websites, as was tried on users by ARSTECHNICA (and it worked on AdBlock in that manner), to that websites' users' dismay:



An experiment gone wrong - By Ken Fisher | Last updated March 6, 2010 11:11 AM

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-is-devastating-to-the-sites-you-love.ars [arstechnica.com]

"Starting late Friday afternoon we conducted a 12 hour experiment to see if it would be possible to simply make content disappear for visitors who were using a very popular ad blocking tool. Technologically, it was a success in that it worked. Ad blockers, and only ad blockers, couldn't see our content."


"Our experiment is over, and we're glad we did it because it led to us learning that we needed to communicate our point of view every once in a while. Sure, some people told us we deserved to die in a fire. But that's the Internet!"

Thus, as you can see? Well - THAT all "went over like a lead balloon" with their users in other words, because Arstechnica was forced to change it back to the old way where ADBLOCK still could work to do its job (REDDIT however, has not, for example). However/Again - this is proof that HOSTS files can still do the job, blocking potentially malscripted ads (or ads in general because they slow you down) vs. adblockers like ADBLOCK!


19.) Even WIKILEAKS "favors" blacklists (because they work, and HOSTS can be a blacklist vs. known BAD sites/servers/domain-host names):


PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT (from -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/16/wikileaks_mirror_malware_warning_row/ [theregister.co.uk] )

"we are in favour of 'Blacklists', be it for mail servers or websites, they have to be compiled with care... Fortunately, more responsible blacklists, like stopbadware.org (which protects the Firefox browser)...


20.) AND, LASTLY? SINCE MALWARE GENERALLY HAS TO OPERATE ON WHAT YOU YOURSELF CAN DO (running as limited class/least privlege user, hopefully, OR even as ADMIN/ROOT/SUPERUSER)? HOSTS "LOCK IN" malware too, vs. communicating "back to mama" for orders (provided they have name servers + C&C botnet servers listed in them, blocked off in your HOSTS that is) - you might think they use a hardcoded IP, which IS possible, but generally they do not & RECYCLE domain/host names they own (such as has been seen with the RBN (Russian Business Network) lately though it was considered "dead", other malwares are using its domains/hostnames now, & this? This stops that cold, too - Bonus!)...

21.) Custom HOSTS files gain users back more "screen real estate" by blocking out banner ads... it's great on PC's for speed along with MORE of what I want to see/read (not ads), & efficiency too, but EVEN BETTER ON SMARTPHONES - by far. It matters MOST there imo @ least, in regards to extra screen real-estate.

Still - It's a GOOD idea to layer in the usage of BOTH browser addons for security like adblock ( http://adblockplus.org/en/ [adblockplus.org] ), IE 9's new TPL's ( http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Browser/TrackingProtectionLists/ [microsoft.com] ), &/or NoScript ( http://noscript.net/ [noscript.net] especially this one, as it covers what HOSTS files can't in javascript which is the main deliverer of MOST attacks online & SECUNIA.COM can verify this for anyone really by looking @ the past few years of attacks nowadays), for the concept of "layered security"....

It's just that HOSTS files offer you a LOT MORE gains than Adblock ( http://adblockplus.org/en/ [adblockplus.org] ) does alone (as hosts do things adblock just plain cannot & on more programs, for more speed, security, and "stealth" to a degree even), and it corrects problems in DNS (as shown above via hardcodes of your favorite sites into your HOSTS file, and more (such as avoiding DNS request logs)).

ALSO - Some more notes on DNS servers & their problems, very recent + ongoing ones:


DNS flaw reanimates slain evil sites as ghost domains:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/16/ghost_domains_dns_vuln/ [theregister.co.uk]


BIND vs. what the Chinese are doing to DNS lately? See here:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders [slashdot.org]



http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/secunia_back_from_dns_hack/ [theregister.co.uk]

(Yes, even "security pros" are helpless vs. DNS problems in code bugs OR redirect DNS poisoning issues, & they can only try to "set the DNS record straight" & then, they still have to wait for corrected DNS info. to propogate across all subordinate DNS servers too - lagtime in which folks DO get "abused" in mind you!)


DNS vs. the "Kaminsky DNS flaw", here (and even MORE problems in DNS than just that):

http://www.scmagazineus.com/new-bind-9-dns-flaw-is-worse-than-kaminskys/article/140872/ [scmagazineus.com]

(Seems others are saying that some NEW "Bind9 flaw" is worse than the Kaminsky flaw ALONE, up there, mind you... probably corrected (hopefully), but it shows yet again, DNS hassles (DNS redirect/DNS poisoning) being exploited!)


Moxie Marlinspike's found others (0 hack) as well...

Nope... "layered security" truly IS the "way to go" - hacker/cracker types know it, & they do NOT want the rest of us knowing it too!...

(So until DNSSEC takes "widespread adoption"? HOSTS are your answer vs. such types of attack, because the 1st thing your system refers to, by default, IS your HOSTS file (over say, DNS server usage). There are decent DNS servers though, such as OpenDNS, ScrubIT, or even NORTON DNS (more on each specifically below), & because I cannot "cache the entire internet" in a HOSTS file? I opt to use those, because I have to (& OpenDNS has been noted to "fix immediately", per the Kaminsky flaw, in fact... just as a sort of reference to how WELL they are maintained really!)


DNS Hijacks Now Being Used to Serve Black Hole Exploit Kit:

https://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/dns-hijacks-now-being-used-serve-black-hole-exploit-kit-121211 [threatpost.com]


DNS experts admit some of the underlying foundations of the DNS protocol are inherently weak:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/12/08/1353203/opendns-releases-dns-encryption-tool [slashdot.org]


Potential 0-Day Vulnerability For BIND 9:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/11/17/1429259/potential-0-day-vulnerability-for-bind-9 [slashdot.org]


Five DNS Threats You Should Protect Against:

http://www.securityweek.com/five-dns-threats-you-should-protect-against [securityweek.com]


DNS provider decked by DDoS dastards:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/16/ddos_on_dns_firm/ [theregister.co.uk]


Ten Percent of DNS Servers Still Vulnerable: (so much for "conscientious patching", eh? Many DNS providers weren't patching when they had to!)

http://it.slashdot.org/it/05/08/04/1525235.shtml?tid=172&tid=95&tid=218 [slashdot.org]



http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/02/06/2238225.shtml [slashdot.org]


TimeWarner DNS Hijacking:

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/23/2140208 [slashdot.org]


DNS Re-Binding Attacks:

http://crypto.stanford.edu/dns/ [stanford.edu]


DNS Server Survey Reveals Mixed Security Picture:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/11/21/0315239.shtml [slashdot.org]


Halvar figured out super-secret DNS vulnerability:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/has-halvar-figured-out-super-secret-dns-vulnerability/1520 [zdnet.com]


BIND Still Susceptible To DNS Cache Poisoning:

http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/08/09/123222.shtml [slashdot.org]


DNS Poisoning Hits One of China's Biggest ISPs:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/08/21/2343250.shtml [slashdot.org]


DDoS Attacks Via DNS Recursion:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/06/03/16/1658209.shtml [slashdot.org]


High Severity BIND DNS Vulnerability Advisory Issued:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/02/23/156212/High-Severity-BIND-Vulnerability-Advisory-Issued [slashdot.org]


Photobucketâ(TM)s DNS records hijacked:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=1285 [zdnet.com]


Protecting Browsers from DNS Rebinding Attacks:

http://crypto.stanford.edu/dns/ [stanford.edu]


DNS Problem Linked To DDoS Attacks Gets Worse:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/11/15/1238210/DNS-Problem-Linked-To-DDoS-Attacks-Gets-Worse [slashdot.org]


HOWEVER - Some DNS servers are "really good stuff" vs. phishing, known bad sites/servers/hosts-domains that serve up malware-in-general & malicious scripting, botnet C&C servers, & more, such as:

Norton DNS -> http://nortondns.com/ [nortondns.com]
  ScrubIT DNS -> http://www.scrubit.com/ [scrubit.com]
  OpenDNS -> http://www.opendns.com/ [opendns.com]

(Norton DNS in particular, is exclusively for blocking out malware, for those of you that are security-conscious. ScrubIT filters pr0n material too, but does the same, & OpenDNS does phishing protection. Each page lists how & why they work, & why they do so. Norton DNS can even show you its exceptions lists, plus user reviews & removal procedures requests, AND growth stats (every 1/2 hour or so) here -> http://safeweb.norton.com/buzz [norton.com] so, that ought to "take care of the naysayers" on removal requests, &/or methods used plus updates frequency etc./et al...)

HOWEVER - There's ONLY 1 WEAKNESS TO ANY network defense, including HOSTS files (vs. host-domain name based threats) & firewalls (hardware router type OR software type, vs. IP address based threats): Human beings, & they not being 'disciplined' about the indiscriminate usage of javascript (the main "harbinger of doom" out there today online), OR, what they download for example... & there is NOTHING I can do about that! (Per Dr. Manhattan of "The Watchmen", ala -> "I can change almost anything, but I can't change human nature")

HOWEVER AGAIN - That's where NORTON DNS, OpenDNS, &/or ScrubIT DNS help!

(Especially for noob/grandma level users who are unaware of how to secure themselves in fact, per a guide like mine noted above that uses "layered-security" principles!)

ScrubIT DNS, &/or OpenDNS are others alongside Norton DNS (adding on phishing protection too) as well!

( & it's possible to use ALL THREE in your hardware NAT routers, and, in your Local Area Connection DNS properties in Windows, for again, "Layered Security" too)...




"Ever since I've installed a host file (http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm) to redirect advertisers to my loopback, I haven't had any malware, spyware, or adware issues. I first started using the host file 5 years ago." - by TestedDoughnut (1324447) on Monday December 13, @12:18AM (#34532122)

"I use a custom /etc/hosts to block ads... my file gets parsed basically instantly ... So basically, for any modern computer, it has zero visible impact. And even if it took, say, a second to parse, that would be more than offset by the MANY seconds saved by not downloading and rendering ads. I have noticed NO ill effects from running a custom /etc/hosts file for the last several years. And as a matter of fact I DO run http servers on my computers and I've never had an /etc/hosts-related problem... it FUCKING WORKS and makes my life better overall." - by sootman (158191) on Monday July 13 2009, @11:47AM (#28677363) Homepage Journal

"I actually went and downloaded a 16k line hosts file and started using that after seeing that post, you know just for trying it out. some sites load up faster." - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday November 17, @11:20AM (#38086752) Homepage Journal

"Better than an ad blocker, imo. Hosts file entries: http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org] " - by TempestRose (1187397) on Tuesday March 15, @12:53PM (#35493274)

"^^ One of the many reasons why I like the user-friendliness of the /etc/hosts file." - by lennier1 (264730) on Saturday March 05, @09:26PM (#35393448)

"They've been on my HOSTS block for years" - by ScottCooperDotNet (929575) on Thursday August 05 2010, @01:52AM (#33147212)

"I'm currently only using my hosts file to block pheedo ads from showing up in my RSS feeds and causing them to take forever to load. Regardless of its original intent, it's still a valid tool, when used judiciously." - by Bill Dog (726542) on Monday April 25, @02:16AM (#35927050) Homepage Journal

"you're right about hosts files" - by drinkypoo (153816) on Thursday May 26, @01:21PM (#36252958) Homepage

"APK's monolithic hosts file is looking pretty good at the moment." - by Culture20 (968837) on Thursday November 17, @10:08AM (#38085666)

"I also use the MVPS ad blocking hosts file." - by Rick17JJ (744063) on Wednesday January 19, @03:04PM (#34931482)

"I use ad-Block and a hostfile" - by Ol Olsoc (1175323) on Tuesday March 01, @10:11AM (#35346902)

"I do use Hosts, for a couple fake domains I use." - by icebraining (1313345) on Saturday December 11, @09:34AM (#34523012) Homepage

"It's a good write up on something everybody should use, why you were modded down is beyond me. Using a HOSTS file, ADblock is of no concern and they can do what they want." - by Trax3001BBS (2368736) on Monday December 12, @10:07PM (#38351398) Homepage Journal

"I want my surfing speed back so I block EVERY fucking ad. i.e. http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ [someonewhocares.org] and http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm [mvps.org] FTW" - by UnknownSoldier (67820) on Tuesday December 13, @12:04PM (#38356782)

"Let me introduce you to the file: /etc/hosts" - by fahrbot-bot (874524) on Monday December 19, @05:03PM (#38427432)

"I use a hosts file" - by EdIII (1114411) on Tuesday December 13, @01:17PM (#38357816)

"I'm tempted to go for a hacked hosts file that simply resolves most advert sites to" - by bLanark (123342) on Tuesday December 13, @01:13PM (#38357760)

"this is not a troll, which hosts file source you recommend nowadays? it's a really handy method for speeding up web and it works." - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday March 22, @08:07PM (#39446525) Homepage Journal

"A hosts file certainly does not require "a lot of work" to maintain, and it quite effectively kills a LOT of advertising and tracking schemes. . In fact, I never would have considered trying to use it for ddefending against viruses or malware." - by RocketRabbit (830691) on Thursday December 30 2010, @05:48PM (#34715060)


Then, there is also the words of respected security expert, Mr. Oliver Day, from SECURITYFOCUS.COM to "top that all off" as well:


http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/491 [securityfocus.com]

Some "PERTINENT QUOTES/EXCERPTS" to back up my points with (for starters):


"The host file on my day-to-day laptop is now over 16,000 lines long. Accessing the Internet -- particularly browsing the Web -- is actually faster now."

Speed, and security, is the gain... others like Mr. Day note it as well!


"From what I have seen in my research, major efforts to share lists of unwanted hosts began gaining serious momentum earlier this decade. The most popular appear to have started as a means to block advertising and as a way to avoid being tracked by sites that use cookies to gather data on the user across Web properties. More recently, projects like Spybot Search and Destroy offer lists of known malicious servers to add a layer of defense against trojans and other forms of malware."

Per my points exactly, no less... & guess who was posting about HOSTS files a 14++ yrs. or more back & Mr. Day was reading & now using? Yours truly (& this is one of the later ones, from 2001 http://www.furtherleft.net/computer.htm [furtherleft.net] (but the example HOSTS file with my initials in it is FAR older, circa 1998 or so) or thereabouts, and referred to later by a pal of mine who moderates NTCompatible.com (where I posted on HOSTS for YEARS (1997 onwards)) -> http://www.ntcompatible.com/thread28597-1.html [ntcompatible.com] !


"Shared host files could be beneficial for other groups as well. Human rights groups have sought after block resistant technologies for quite some time. The GoDaddy debacle with NMap creator Fyodor (corrected) showed a particularly vicious blocking mechanism using DNS registrars. Once a registrar pulls a website from its records, the world ceases to have an effective way to find it. Shared host files could provide a DNS-proof method of reaching sites, not to mention removing an additional vector of detection if anyone were trying to monitor the use of subversive sites. One of the known weaknesses of the Tor system, for example, is direct DNS requests by applications not configured to route such requests through Tor's network."

There you go: AND, it also works vs. the "KAMINSKY DNS FLAW" & DNS poisoning/redirect attacks, for redirectable weaknesses in DNS servers (non DNSSEC type, & set into recursive mode especially) and also in the TOR system as well (that lends itself to anonymous proxy usage weaknesses I noted above also) and, you'll get to sites you want to, even IF a DNS registrar drops said websites from its tables as shown here Beating Censorship By Routing Around DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/09/1840246/Beating-Censorship-By-Routing-Around-DNS [slashdot.org] & even DNSBL also (DNS Block Lists) -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNSBL [wikipedia.org] as well - DOUBLE-BONUS!


* POSTS ABOUT HOSTS FILES I DID on "/." THAT HAVE DONE WELL BY OTHERS & WERE RATED HIGHLY, 26++ THUSFAR (from +3 -> +1 RATINGS, usually "informative" or "interesting" etc./et al):

BANNER ADS & BANDWIDTH:2011 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2139088&cid=36077722 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907266&cid=34529608 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1490078&cid=30555632 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1869638&cid=34237268 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1461288&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=30272074 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1255487&cid=28197285 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1206409&cid=27661983 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1725068&cid=32960808 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1743902&cid=33147274 [slashdot.org]
  APK 20++ POINTS ON HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1913212&cid=34576182 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1862260&cid=34186256 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 (w/ facebook known bad sites blocked) -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1924892&cid=34670128 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS FILE MOD UP FOR ANDROID MALWARE:2010 -> http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1930156&cid=34713952 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP ZEUSTRACKER:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2059420&cid=35654066 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP vs AT&T BANDWIDTH CAP:2011 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2116504&cid=35985584 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP CAN DO SAME AS THE "CloudFlare" Server-Side service:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2220314&cid=36372850 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS and BGP +5 RATED (BEING HONEST):2010 http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1901826&cid=34490450 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS & PROTECT IP ACT:2011 http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2368832&cid=37021700 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2011 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2457766&cid=37592458 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP & OPERA HAUTE SECURE:2011 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2457274&cid=37589596 [slashdot.org] in HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1197039&cid=27556999 [slashdot.org] IN HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1143349&cid=27012231 [slashdot.org] in HOSTS:2009 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1198841&cid=27580299 [slashdot.org] in HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1139705&cid=26977225 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1319261&cid=28872833 [slashdot.org] (still says INSIGHTFUL)
  HOSTS MOD UP vs. botnet: 2012 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2603836&cid=38586216 [slashdot.org]


Windows 7, VISTA, & Server 2008 have a couple of "issues" I don't like in them, & you may not either, depending on your point of view (mine's based solely on efficiency & security), & if my take on these issues aren't "good enough"? I suggest reading what ROOTKIT.COM says, link URL is in my "p.s." @ the bottom of this post:

1.) HOSTS files being unable to use "0" for a blocking IP address - this started in 12/09/2008 after an "MS Patch Tuesday" in fact for VISTA (when it had NO problem using it before that, as Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 still can)... & yes, this continues in its descendants, Windows Server 2008 &/or Windows 7 as well.

So, why is this a "problem" you might ask?

Ok - since you can technically use either:

a.) (the "loopback adapter address")
b.) (next smallest & next most efficient)
c.) The smallest & fastest plain-jane 0


You can use ANY of those, in order to block out known bad sites &/or adbanners in a HOSTS file this way??

Microsoft has "promoted bloat" in doing so... no questions asked.

Simply because

1.) = 9 bytes in size on disk & is the largest/slowest
2.) = 7 bytes & is the next largest/slowest in size on disk
3.) 0 = 1 byte

(& HOSTS files extend across EVERY webbrowser, email program, or in general every webbound program you use & thus HOSTS are "global" in coverage this way AND function on any OS that uses the BSD derived IP stack (which most all do mind you, even MS is based off of it, as BSD's IS truly, "the best in the business"), & when coupled with say, IE restricted zones, FireFox addons like NoScript &/or AdBlock, or Opera filter.ini/urlfilter.ini, for layered security in this capacity for webbrowsers & SOME email programs (here, I mean ones "built into" browsers themselves like Opera has for example))

MS has literally promoted bloat in this file, making it load slower from disk, into memory! This compounds itself, the more entries your HOSTS file contains... & for instance? Mine currently contains nearly 654,000 entries of known bad adbanners, bad websites, &/or bad nameservers (used for controlling botnets, misdirecting net requests, etc. et al).

Now, IF I were to use My "huge" HOSTS file would be approximately 27mb in size... using (next smallest) it would be 19mb in size - HOWEVER? Using 0 as my blocking IP, it is only 14mb in size. See my point?

(For loads either in the local DNS cache, or system diskcache if you run w/out the local DNS client service running, this gets slower the larger each HOSTS file entry is (which you have to stall the DNS client service in Windows for larger ones, especially if you use a "giant HOSTS file" (purely relative term, but once it goes over (iirc) 4mb in size, you have to cut the local DNS cache client service)))

NO questions asked - the physics of it backed me up in theory alone, but when I was questioned on it for PROOF thereof?

I wrote a small test program to load such a list into a "pascal record" (which is analagous to a C/C++ structure), which is EXACTLY what the DNS client/DNS API does as well, using a C/C++ structure (basically an array of sorts really, & a structure/record is a precursor part to a full-blown CLASS or OBJECT, minus the functions built in, this is for treating numerous variables as a SINGLE VARIABLE (for efficiency, which FORTRAN as a single example, lacks as a feature, @ least Fortran 77 did, but other languages do not))!

I even wrote another that just loaded my HOSTS file's entirety into a listbox, same results... slowest using, next slowest using, & fastest using 0.

And, sure: Some MORE "goes on" during DNS API loads (iirc, removal of duplicated entries (which I made sure my personal copy does not have these via a program I wrote to purge it of duplicated entries + to sort each entry alphabetically for easier mgt. via say, notepad.exe) & a conversion from decimal values to hex ones), but, nevertheless? My point here "holds true", of slower value loads, record-by-record, from a HOSTS file, when the entries become larger.

So, to "prove my point" to my naysayers?

I timed it using the Win32 API calls "GetTickCount" & then again, using the API calls of "QueryPerformanceCounter" as well, seeing the SAME results (a slowdown when reading in this file from disk, especially when using the larger or line item entries in a HOSTS file, vs. the smaller/faster/more efficient 0).

In my test, I saw a decline in speed/efficiency in my test doing so by using larger blocking addresses ( &/or, vs. the smallest/fastest in 0)... proving me correct on this note!

On this HOSTS issue, and the WFP design issue in my next post below?

I also then questioned MS' own staff, even their VP of development (S. Sinofsky) on this here -> http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/02/09/recognizing-improvements-in-windows-7-handwriting.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage [msdn.com] & other places in their blogs, to get them to tell me WHY this seemingly intentional inefficiency was implemented... & I have YET to get a solid LOGICAL answer on this as to why it was done - THUS, @ this point?

I am convinced they (MS) do NOT have a good reason for doing this... because of their lack of response there on this note. Unless it has something to do with IPv6 (most folks use IPv4 still), I cannot understand WHY this design mistake imo, has occurred, in HOSTS files...


2.) The "Windows Filtering Platform", which is now how the firewall works in VISTA, Server 2008, & Windows 7...

Sure it works in this new single point method & it is simple to manage & "sync" all points of it, making it easier for network techs/admins to manage than the older 3 part method, but that very thing works against it as well, because it is only a single part system now!

Thus, however?

This "single layer design" in WFP, now represents a SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE/ATTACK for malware makers to 'take down'!

(Which is 1 of the 1st things a malware attempts to do, is to take down any software firewalls present, or even the "Windows Security Center" itself which should warn you of the firewall "going down", & it's fairly easy to do either by messaging the services they use, or messing up their registry init. settings)

VS. the older (up to) 3 part method used in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003, for protecting a system via IP Filtering, the Windows native Firewall, &/or IPSEC. Each of which uses diff. drivers, & layers of the IP stack to function from, as well as registry initialization settings.

Think of the older 3 part design much the same as the reason why folks use door handle locks, deadbolt locks, & chain locks on their doors... multipart layered security.

(Each of which the latter older method used, had 3 separate drivers & registry settings to do their jobs, representing a "phalanx like"/"zone defense like" system of backup of one another (like you see in sports OR ancient wars, and trust me, it WORKS, because on either side of yourself, you have "backup", even if YOU "go down" vs. the opponent)).

I.E.-> Take 1 of the "older method's" 3 part defenses down? 2 others STILL stand in the way, & they are not that simple to take them ALL down...

(Well, @ least NOT as easily as "taking out" a single part defensive system like WFP (the new "Windows Filtering Platform", which powers the VISTA, Windows Server 2008, & yes, Windows 7 firewall defense system)).

On this "single-part/single-point of attack" WFP (vs. Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003's IP stack defense design in 3-part/zone defense/phalanx type arrangement) as well as the HOSTS issue in my post above?

I also then questioned MS' own staff, even their VP of development (S. Sinofsky) on this here -> http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/02/09/recognizing-improvements-in-windows-7-handwriting.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage [msdn.com] & other places in their blogs, to get them to tell me WHY this seemingly intentional inefficiency was implemented... & I have YET to get a solid LOGICAL answer on this as to why it was done - THUS, @ this point?

I'll stick to my thoughts on it, until I am shown otherwise & proven wrong.


Following up on what I wrote up above, so those here reading have actual technical references from Microsoft themselves ("The horses' mouth"), in regards to the Firewall/PortFilter/IPSec designs (not HOSTS files, that I am SURE I am correct about, no questions asked) from my "Point #2" above?

Thus, I'll now note how:


1.) TCP/IP packet processing paths differences between in how Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 did it (IPSEC.SYS (IP Security Policies), IPNAT.SYS (Windows Firewall), IPFLTDRV.SYS (Port Filtering), & TCPIP.SYS (base IP driver))...

2.) AND, how VISTA/Server 2008/Windows 7 do it now currently, using a SINGLE layer (WFP)...


First off, here is HOW it worked in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 - using 3 discrete & different drivers AND LEVELS/LAYERS of the packet processing path they worked in:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb878072.aspx [microsoft.com]

The Cable Guy - June 2005: TCP/IP Packet Processing Paths


The following components process IP packets:

IP forwarding Determines the next-hop interface and address for packets being sent or forwarded.

TCP/IP filtering Allows you to specify by IP protocol, TCP port, or UDP port, the types of traffic that are acceptable for incoming local host traffic (packets destined for the host). You can configure TCP/IP filtering on the Options tab from the advanced properties of the Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) component in the Network Connections folder.

* "Here endeth the lesson..." and, if you REALLY want to secure your system? Please refer to this:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=%22HOW+TO+SECURE+Windows+2000%2FXP%22&go=&form=QBRE [bing.com]

APK [mailto]

P.S.=> SOME MINOR "CAVEATS/CATCH-22's" - things to be aware of for "layered security" + HOSTS file performance - easily overcome, or not a problem at all:

A.) HOSTS files don't function under PROXY SERVERS (except for Proximitron, which has a filter that allows it) - Which is *the "WHY"* of why I state in my "P.S." section below to use both AdBlock type browser addon methods (or even built-in block lists browsers have such as Opera's URLFILTER.INI file, & FireFox has such as list as does IE also in the form of TPL (tracking protection lists -> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Browser/TrackingProtectionLists/ [microsoft.com] , good stuff )) in combination with HOSTS, for the best in "layered security" (alongside .pac files + custom cascading style sheets that can filter off various tags such as scripts or ads etc.) - but proxies, especially "HIGHLY ANONYMOUS" types, generally slow you down to a CRAWL online (& personally, I cannot see using proxies "for the good" typically - as they allow "truly anonymous posting" & have bugs (such as TOR has been shown to have & be "bypassable/traceable" via its "onion routing" methods)).

B.) HOSTS files do NOT protect you vs. javascript (this only holds true IF you don't already have a bad site blocked out in your HOSTS file though, & the list of sites where you can obtain such lists to add to your HOSTS are above (& updated daily in many of them)).

C.) HOSTS files (relatively "largish ones") require you to turn off Windows' native "DNS local client cache service" (which has a problem in that it's designed with a non-redimensionable/resizeable list, array, or queue (DNS data loads into a C/C++ structure actually/afaik, which IS a form of array)) - mvps.org covers that in detail and how to easily do this in Windows (this is NOT a problem in Linux, & it's 1 thing I will give Linux over Windows, hands-down). Relatively "smallish" HOSTS files don't have this problem (mvps.org offers 2 types for this).

D.) HOSTS files, once read/loaded, once? GET CACHED! Right into the kernelmode diskcaching subsystem (fast & efficient RAM speed), for speed of access/re-access (@ system startup in older MS OS' like 2000, or, upon a users' 1st request that's "Webbound" via say, a webbrowser) gets read into either the DNS local caching client service (noted above), OR, if that's turned off? Into your local diskcac

Re:The only REAL security is a good HOST file... a (2)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#43494441)

Not many other parasites sing such high praise for their HOSTS.

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalskia (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43496091)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

* POOR SHOWING TROLLS, & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.

My reputation as a professional in this field clearly shows in multiple publications in this field in written print, & also online in various GOOD capacities since 1996 to present day. This has happened since I was first published in Playgirl Magazine in 1996 & others to present day, with helpful tools online in programs, & professionally sold warez that were finalists @ Westminster Dog Show 2000-2002.


apk on 4chan [4chan.org]




That was amazing. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948073 [slashdot.org]


My, God! It's beatiful. Keep it up, you glorious bastard. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41835161 [slashdot.org]


Let us bask in its glory. A true modern The Wasteland. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948579 [slashdot.org]


put your baby IN ME -- I just read this whole thing. Fuck mod points, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?!!! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40950023 [slashdot.org]


Oh shit, Time Cube Guy's into computers now... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946259 [slashdot.org]


[apk]'s done more to discredit the use of HOSTS files than anyone [else] ever could. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]


this obnoxious fucknuts [apk] has been trolling the internet and spamming his shit delphi sub-fart app utilities for 15 years. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954565 [slashdot.org]


this is hilarious. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40955479 [slashdot.org]


I agree I am intrigued by these host files how do I sign up for your newsletter? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40961339 [slashdot.org]


Gimme the program that generates this epic message. I'll buy 5 of your product if you do... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40954251 [slashdot.org]


a pretty well-executed mashup of APK's style - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]


a very clever parody of APK - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40944229 [slashdot.org]


Please keep us updated on your AI research, you seem quite good at it. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038597&cid=40944603 [slashdot.org]


Obviously, it must be Alexander Peter Kowalski. He's miffed at all these imposters... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958429 [slashdot.org]


Damn, apk, who the fuck did you piss off this time? Hahahahaahahahahahahaahaha. Pass the popcorn as the troll apk gets pwned relentlessly. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954673 [slashdot.org]


I think it's the Internet, about to become sentient. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40956187 [slashdot.org]


KUDOS valiant AC. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897777 [slashdot.org]


Polyploid lovechild of APK, MyCleanPC, and Time Cube --> fail counter integer overflow --> maximum win! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40899171 [slashdot.org]


You made my day, thanks! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029589&cid=40896469 [slashdot.org]


Wow. The perfect mix of trolls. Timecube, mycleanpc, gnaa, apk... this is great! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3027333&cid=40893381 [slashdot.org]


truer words were never spoken as /. trolls are struck speechless by it, lol! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=41041795 [slashdot.org]


It's APK himself trying to maintain the illusion that he's still relevant. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967209 [slashdot.org]


Mod this up. The back and forth multi posting between APK and this "anti-APK" certainly does look like APK talking to himself. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40969175 [slashdot.org]


APK himself would be at the top of a sensible person's ban list. He's been spamming and trolling Slashdot for years. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967137 [slashdot.org]


Not sure if actually crazy, or just pretending to be crazy. Awesome troll either way. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432951 [slashdot.org]


Awesome! Hat off to you, sir! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41509273 [slashdot.org]


That isn't a parody of Time-cube, it is an effort to counter-troll a prolific poster named APK, who seems like a troll himself, although is way too easy to troll into wasting massive amounts of time on BS not far from the exaggerations above - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41514107 [slashdot.org]


that is Art . Kudos to you, valiant troll on your glorious FP - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832599 [slashdot.org]


What? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832673 [slashdot.org]


It is in fact an extremely well thought out and brilliantly executed APK parody, combined with a Time Cube parody, and with a sprinkling of the MyCleanPC spam. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41841251 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] er... many people have disproved your points about hosts files with well reasoned, factual arguments. You just chose not to listen and made it into some kind of bizarre crusade. And I'm not the timecube guy, just someone else who finds you intensely obnoxious and likes winding you up to waste your time. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41843313 [slashdot.org]


it's apk, theres no reason to care. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847097 [slashdot.org]


Seems more like an apk parody. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847661 [slashdot.org]


That's great but what about the risk of subluxations? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847101 [slashdot.org]


Read carefully. This is a satirical post, that combines the last several years of forum trolling, rolled into one FUNNY rant! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41864711 [slashdot.org]


I can has summary? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41861327 [slashdot.org]


Trolls trolling trolls... it's like Inception or something. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869353 [slashdot.org]


We all know it's you, apk. Stop pretending to antagonize yourself. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229179&cid=41869305 [slashdot.org]


Now you've made me all nostalgic for USENET. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42981977 [slashdot.org]


Google APK Hosts File Manager. He's written a fucking application to manage your hosts file. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42984521 [slashdot.org]


In case you are not aware, the post is a satire of a fellow known as APK. The grammar used is modeled after APK's as you can see here [thorschrock.com] . Or, you can just look around a bit and see some of his posts on here about the wonders of host files. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42983119 [slashdot.org]


You are surely of God of Trolls, whomever you are. I have had stupid arguments with and bitten the troll apk many times. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486901&cid=42989683 [slashdot.org]


"What kind of meds cure schizophrenic drunk rambling?" -> "Whatever APK isn't taking" - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028403 [slashdot.org] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028425 [slashdot.org]


I'm confused, is apk trolling himself now? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43029495 [slashdot.org]


Excellent mashup. A++. Would troll again. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3503531&cid=43037445 [slashdot.org]


Best. Troll. Ever. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43044811 [slashdot.org]


I like monkeys. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43051505 [slashdot.org]


This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43052263 [slashdot.org]


I admire this guy's persistence. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063797 [slashdot.org]


It's a big remix of several different crackpots from Slashdot and elsewhere, plus a liberal sprinkling of famous Slashdot trolls and old memes. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063881 [slashdot.org]


APK is a prominent supporter of Monsanto. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063893 [slashdot.org]


Here's a hint, check out stories like this one [slashdot.org] , where over 200 of the 247 posts are rated zero or -1 because they are either from two stupid trolls arguing endless, or quite likely one troll arguing with himself for attention. The amount of off-topic posts almost outnumber on topic ones by 4 to 1. Posts like the above are popular for trolling APK, since if you say his name three times, he appears, and will almost endlessly feed trolls. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43064383 [slashdot.org]


I love this copypasta so much. It never fails to make me smile. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3512099&cid=43069271 [slashdot.org]


^ Champion Mod parent up. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3513659&cid=43067371 [slashdot.org]


I appreciate the time cube reference, and how you tied it into the story. Well done. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3521721&cid=43094565 [slashdot.org]


The day you are silenced is the day freedom dies on Slashdot. God bless. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522191&cid=43097221 [slashdot.org]


AHahahahah thanks for that, cut-n-pasted.... Ownage! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522219&cid=43097215 [slashdot.org]


If you're familiar with APK, the post itself is a pretty damn funny parody. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115215 [slashdot.org]


">implying it's not apk posting it" --> "I'd seriously doubt he's capable of that level of self-deprecation..." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115337 [slashdot.org] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115363 [slashdot.org]


No, the other posts are linked in a parody of APK [mailto] 's tendency to quote himself, numbnuts. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43116855 [slashdot.org]


Just ban any post with "apk", "host file", or "hosts file", as that would take care of the original apk too. The original has been shitposting Slashdot much longer & more intensively than the parody guy. Or ban all Tor exit nodes, as they both use Tor to circumvent IP bans. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216431 [slashdot.org]


Sadly this is closer to on-topic than an actual APK post is. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216225 [slashdot.org]


YOU ARE A GOD AMONG MEN. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43236143 [slashdot.org]


I've butted heads with APK myself, and yeah, the guy's got issues - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569173&cid=43236987 [slashdot.org]


Can I be in your quote list? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569443&cid=43237531 [slashdot.org]


Clearly you are not an Intertubes engineer, otherwise the parent post would be more meaningful to you. Why don't YOU take your meds? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569425&cid=43238177 [slashdot.org]


+2 for style! The bolding, italicizing, and font changes are all spot-on - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43238479 [slashdot.org]


Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243509 [slashdot.org]


APK is not really a schizophrenic fired former Windows administrator with multiple personality disorder and TimeCube/Art Bell refugee. He's a fictional character like and put forward by the same person as Goatse Guy, GNAA trolls, Dr. Bob and so forth. His purpose is to test the /. CAPTCA algorithm, which is a useful purpose. If you're perturbed by having to scroll past his screeds just set your minimum point level to 1, as his posts are pretty automatically downmodded right away. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243145 [slashdot.org]


I just saw APK a couple days ago. He surfaced, blew once, and submerged... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43245913 [slashdot.org]


oh man, that incredible interminable list of responses is almost as funny as the original post. This is getting to be truly epic. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247231 [slashdot.org]


"Does anyone know of an Adblock rule for this?" -> "No, but I bet there's a hosts file entry for it..." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43246997 [slashdot.org] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247097 [slashdot.org]


"Can a hosts file block apk's posts, though?" -> "The universe couldn't handle that much irony." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247135 [slashdot.org] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247219 [slashdot.org]


"That's it, I've had enough. ... Bye everyone, most of the last decade or so has been fun, but frankly, I quit." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247225 [slashdot.org]
--> "So basically what you're saying is that you've added yourself to the HOST file?" - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247481 [slashdot.org]


Sweet baby Moses, this is beautiful work - I wish we could get trolls as good as this on TF. :) - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43247533 [slashdot.org]


you have a point - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247823 [slashdot.org]


I do admire that level of dedication. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247765 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] shut up you stupid cock. Everyone knows you're wrong. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43250533 [slashdot.org]


I will hand it to him, he is definitely consistent. I wish I knew how he did this. That thing is scary huge. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43250411 [slashdot.org]


I admire the amount of dedication you've shown - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573571&cid=43251593 [slashdot.org]


Word is, ESR buttfucks CmdrTaco with his revolver. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573679&cid=43252957 [slashdot.org]


Hey APK, Protip: It's not the truth or value (or lack of) in your post that gets it modded into oblivion, it's the fucking insane length. In addition to TL;DR (which goes without saying for a post of such length), how about irritating readers by requiring them to scroll through 20+ screenfuls just to get to the next post. If you want to publish a short story like this, please do everyone a favor and blog it somewhere, then provide a brief summary and link to your blog. Readers intrigued by your summary will go read your blog, and everyone else will just move along at normal /. speed. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573873&cid=43255013 [slashdot.org]


I like how this post seems to just sum up every Slashdot comment ever without actually saying anything. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574283&cid=43256029 [slashdot.org]


extremely bright - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43255855 [slashdot.org]


You provide many references, which is good. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43257043 [slashdot.org]


Obviously very passionate - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43261975 [slashdot.org]


Thanks ... You should probably stay - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3577613&cid=43262993 [slashdot.org]


Art? -- http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569681&cid=43244883 [slashdot.org]


PROOF apk sucks donkey dick. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3577639&cid=43263029 [slashdot.org]


I've been around /. for a while now, but this post is by far the most unique I've seen. Many have tried, but few achieve the greatness of this AC. My hat's off to you. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3576225&cid=43264325 [slashdot.org]


I think it's hilarious. Get over it! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578301&cid=43265657 [slashdot.org]


Obviously APK filled his hosts files with backdoors before distributing them to ensure he doesn't block himself. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578229&cid=43265767 [slashdot.org]


Alexander Peter Kowalski is an obnoxious prick. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42698875 [slashdot.org]


Don't mention that file. Ever. It'll draw APK like a fly to rotting meat. Last thing I want to read is 80 responses worth of his stupid spam about that file! I swear that cocksucker does nothing but search Slashdot for that term and then spams the entire article. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3554655&cid=43209619 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] You have had it repeatedly explained to you that your posts are long-winded, unpleasant to read due to your absurd formatting style and full of technical inaccuracies borne of your single minded i-have-a-hammer-so-every-problem-is-a-nail attitude. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 [slashdot.org]


You are my favorite Slashdot poster. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3580251&cid=43270359 [slashdot.org]


Most insightful post on the Internet - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3579259&cid=43275207 [slashdot.org]


I read the whole thing *again* just to see if my comment was in there - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3588003&cid=43293069 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] So, did your mom do a lot of drugs when she was pregnant? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586303&cid=43291531 [slashdot.org]


people are looking at me funny because I'm laughing hysterically at what a perfect APK imitation it is. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3581991&cid=43278203 [slashdot.org]


Slashdot devs seem in no hurry to fix this problem and it's been driving me nuts. So for anybody who values viewing at -1 and uses greasemonkey here's a Script [pastebin.com] . There's a chance of false positives and it's not the most optimized. But I value not having to scroll through > 10 paragraphs of APK, custom hosts files, or 'acceptable ads' spam. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586291&cid=43287671 [slashdot.org]
--> slashdot devs are too busy installing itunes for their hipster nerd buddys to sort this problem out. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586291&cid=43290701 [slashdot.org]


I can't get enough of all of this good stuff! Thanks for the informative links! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586291&cid=43287553 [slashdot.org]


When threatened, APK typically produces a post with links showing he's essentially posted this hundreds of times to slashdot stories... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586291&cid=43290275 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] Your post got downmodded because you're a nutjob gone off his meds. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586081&cid=43288893 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] The reason people impersonate you is because everyone thinks you're a moron. The hosts file is not intended to be used as you suggest. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3591803&cid=43302885 [slashdot.org]
-->What? You don't have a 14MB hosts file with ~1million entries in it? Next you'll probably tell me that your computer doesn't start thrashing and take 5 minutes for a DNS lookup! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3591803&cid=43302977 [slashdot.org]


[about apk] - this fwit is as thick as a post. worse, this shithead has mod points. and using them. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3591681&cid=43302873 [slashdot.org]


In before the fight between those two guys and their walls of text... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592647&cid=43306485 [slashdot.org]


HEY APK YOU ARE A WASTE OF OXYGEN -GET A LIFE - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593009&cid=43308147 [slashdot.org]


KPA ...thgim dik a ekil .s.b laivirt hcus no emit hcum taht etsaw t'ndluow I sa ,ti gniod em TON si ti - syug ON - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592933&cid=43307605 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] You seriously need to go see a shrink. You are a fucking fruitcake! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592933&cid=43307559 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] Did you ever consider that it's not just one corrupt moderator, it's a bunch of regular slashdot users who infrequently get mod points who think you are totally full of shit? Stop posting annoying off topic irrelevant bullshit, and people won't mod you down. I'm seriously sick of reading your posts about someone impersonating you. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592933&cid=43308389 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] you should be forced to use a cholla cactus as a butt-plug - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592647&cid=43308219 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] No one is on your side, that is why you're here. posting. still. No one cares. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595009&cid=43310903 [slashdot.org]


Who's the more moronic? The original moron, or the one who replies to him knowing full well his comment will certainly be ignored, if not entirely unread, thus bringing the insane troll post to the attention of those who would otherwise not have seen it at all (seeing as it started at 0 and would have rapidly been modded down to -1) and whose post (and, somewhat ironically I grant you, this one as well) now requires 3 more mod points to be spent to hide it? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593207&cid=43311073 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] I miss trollaxor. His gay porn world of slashdot executives and open-source luminaries was infinitely more entertaining than this drivel. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593207&cid=43311225 [slashdot.org]


PLEASE stop modding biters up. Anyone who responds to an abvious troll, especually one of these APK trolls, should autometically get the same -1 troll as the damned troll. Any response to a troll only makes the troll do more trolling. Come on, guys, use your brains -- it isn't that hard. Stop feeding the damned trolls! - (missing link)


[to apk] Lick the inside of goatse's anus, it's delicious! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3589605&cid=43301757 [slashdot.org]


Excellent post A++++++++++++ would scroll past again!!!! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595009&cid=43312407 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] You are the one who is pitiful. If you didn't spam /. with your bullshit you wouldn't have spammer 'impostors' doing the same. Just fuck off and die already, ok? Please, really. Step in front of a bus. Drink some bleach. Whatever it takes, just FUCK OFF and DIE. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595851&cid=43313459 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] From one AC to another please for the love of god, PRINT YOUR HOST FILE OUT AND CRAM IT DOWN YOUR JAPS EYE!!! For fucks sake we don't care we see this and it takes the piss, short of a full frontal lobotomy what will it take to stop you posting this you moronic fuckwit? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596285&cid=43314755 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] And someone forgot to take his meds today...Are you really that dense that you cant tell that the only reason the "impostor" exists because you have a hard time realizing that you are wrong and/or wont let it go. It would take a complete moron to not realize that the whole reason he continues to do it is because he knows he can get you to respond by simply posting. This isnt rocket science, this is internet 101... Let me offer you some advice on how to get rid of this "impostor"...shutup - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595561&cid=43313235 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] If you had a 'luser' account it wouldn't be a problem. But you don't want one of those, because your long rambling and bizarrely formatted posts mean your karma gets nuked in next to no time. So I guess you just have to work out which is 'worth it'. Posting AC because I don't want to become your latest fixation. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593207&cid=43314397 [slashdot.org]


I wouldn't be surprised if that is APK trying to draw attention to himself, since he thinks such endless tirades are examples of him winning and make him look good. When people stop paying attention to him, or post actual counterpoints he can't come up with a response to, he'll post strawman troll postings to shoot down, sometimes just copy pasted from previous stories. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592647&cid=43308851 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] No one wants to read your copy pasted crap. Maybe someone is mocking you because you make it so easy to? So drop it, and participate like an adult please. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596383&cid=43315069 [slashdot.org]


Seriously.... What. The. Fuck. Can you two homos just go make out on brokeback mountain already, and stop talking about how one of you misspelled "penetration", and how the other cockblocks with their hosts files while grabing the other's goat? Goodness, it sure feels like being in a mountain range, trying to peer around those fucking orbital tether lengthed posts of pure premium bullsit the two of you somehoq manage to keep pushing out on demand. Shit stinks! At this point, i'd be willing to risk the fucking extinction of all life on earth by redirecting siding spring C/2013 1A to miss Mars and land on both of your fucking heads instead. The deaths of billions would be a small price to pay to shut you two cackling lovebirds up! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596513&cid=43315327 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] Listen up jackass, why the hell would somebody want to impersonate you? You're a certified internet kook. Nobody gives a hot about your 3 gig hosts file. And nobody is impersonating you. You're already a fucking parody. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596557&cid=43315579 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] You have had it repeatedly explained to you that your posts are long-winded, unpleasant to read due to your absurd formatting style and full of technical inaccuracies borne of your single minded i-have-a-hammer-so-every-problem-is-a-nail attitude. Despite this advice you are convinced that your comments are valuable contributions, ignoring the obvious evidence to the contrary (namely the -1 scores your posts earn on a regular basis). - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42698875 [slashdot.org]


[about apk] Can this be killed off? I don't mean this account, I mean the actual meatbag behind it. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598035&cid=43319201 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] Get an account retard. If you format your password as crazily as your posts no-one will ever crack it. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598035&cid=43319999 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] You are the most consistently annoying creature on the internet. There are people worse than you, just like cancer is worse than psoriasis, but you're more like the latter: pervasive, annoying, and always cropping up when one has mostly forgotten about it. You are that indeterminate, continuous itching that slowly erodes someone's mood until they consider cutting off a part of themselves just to stop it for a while. And like psoriasis, you're auto-immune and not fully understood by science. Slashdot continuously makes it worse by scratching that itch over and over again. It's not smart. It just encourages the disease. But everybody's got a limit to their patience. There is no cure for you. But at least, when slashdot dies, you will die with it, and there will be peace. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3626185&cid=43394107 [slashdot.org]


http://pastebin.com/Cm0HHC66 [pastebin.com]


Did you see the movie "Pokemon"? Actually the induced night "dream world" is synonymous with the academic religious induced "HOSTS file" enslavement of DNS. Domains have no inherent value, as it was invented as a counterfeit and fictitious value to represent natural values in name resolution. Unfortunately, human values have declined to fictitious word values. Unknowingly, you are living in a "World Wide Web", as in a fictitious life in a counterfeit Internet - which you could consider APK induced "HOSTS file". Can you distinguish the academic induced root server from the natural OpenDNS? Beware of the change when your brain is free from HOSTS file enslavement - for you could find that the natural Slashdot has been destroyed!!

FROM -> Man - how many times have I dusted you in tech debates that you have decided to troll me by ac posts for MONTHS now, OR IMPERSONATING ME AS YOU DID HERE and you were caught in it by myself & others here, only to fail each time as you have here?)...

So long nummynuts, sorry to have to kick your nuts up into your head verbally speaking.

cower in my shadow some more, feeb. you're completely pathetic.


* :)

Ac trolls' "BIG FAIL" (quoted): Eat your words!

P.S.=> That's what makes me LAUGH harder than ANYTHING ELSE on this forums (full of "FUD" spreading trolls) - When you hit trolls with facts & truths they CANNOT disprove validly on computing tech based grounds, this is the result - Applying unjustifiable downmods to effetely & vainly *try* to "hide" my posts & facts/truths they extoll!

Hahaha... lol , man: Happens nearly every single time I post such lists (proving how ineffectual these trolls are), only showing how solid my posts of that nature are...

That's the kind of martial arts [google.com] I practice.


Disproof of all apk's statements:

http://pastebin.com/XdQRNeQ4 [pastebin.com]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595715&cid=43312649 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595851&cid=43312901 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595843&cid=43314741 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595851&cid=43314853 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596383&cid=43314951 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596285&cid=43315101 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596285&cid=43315113 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596513&cid=43315283 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596557&cid=43315701 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596725&cid=43317341 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598005&cid=43317813 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598129&cid=43318101 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596709&cid=43318587 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596889&cid=43318605 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598019&cid=43319227 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598035&cid=43319241 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598225&cid=43319965 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598641&cid=43319983 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598833&cid=43320815 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598839&cid=43321211 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598779&cid=43321987 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3626185&cid=43399235 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3624213&cid=43399253 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3654751&cid=43467437 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3654575&cid=43467451 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3651853&cid=43467471 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3655151&cid=43467497 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3647643&cid=43467509 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3647643&cid=43467523 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3646191&cid=43467553 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3655187&cid=43467943 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3655223&cid=43468775 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3658227&cid=43473385 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3658545&cid=43473447 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3658657&cid=43474783 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3658837&cid=43475971 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3659071&cid=43476951 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3660061&cid=43481667 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3662399&cid=43484141 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3662269&cid=43484273 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3660149&cid=43484341 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3663183&cid=43487083 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3663195&cid=43487921 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3663317&cid=43487937 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3663521&cid=43487979 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3663317&cid=43487985 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3663727&cid=43487993 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3663845&cid=43488509 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3663921&cid=43490079 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3666269&cid=43494423 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3664097&cid=43495983 [slashdot.org]
REPORT MISSING LINKS FOR REWARD (check pastebin archive first)


TIP JAR: 1EtLgU5L3jhmVkDmqrWT9VhoZ1F2jSimHS [blockchain.info]
RECEIVED: 0.0195 BTC - thx! ;-)

Re:The only REAL security is a good HOST file... a (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43497937)

Can a HOST file block your incoherent rant? Greasemonkey can. Score: Greasemonkey: 1, APK: 0.

As long as it comes with.. (3, Funny)

Threni (635302) | about 2 years ago | (#43494393)

...an Ask toolbar I have to deselect whenever there's a security update (around twice a week), it's all good!

Laughable (4, Informative)

Rashkae (59673) | about 2 years ago | (#43494401)

If security was at all a real concern, let alone a priority, java would never install itself as a plugin in every browser it can find, ready to run arbriary code from untrusted sources, by default and with every update. All credability here has been lost ages ago.

Re:Laughable (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43497227)

What, do you imagine that java should just provide a popup every time you run an applet with text like "do you want to run the program 'MyLittlePonyPopupGenerator.jar' signed by 'Br0ni3s.com'" with options like [never] [just once] [always]?

That would be crazy! This of how terrible the web would be! You'd have to click that button three or four times a year!

First time (1)

mephox (1462813) | about 2 years ago | (#43494413)

For everything, I suppose.

Fork!!! (2)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 2 years ago | (#43494529)

For chrissakes, will somebody just fork Java and have done with this persistent Oracle nonsense?

I mean, sure, it's good Oracle is doing this. They're just way late, as usual.

Why doesn't somebody just fork it (from back when it was easily forkable), then re-implement the security fixes?

Granted, it would take a lot of work to do that NOW, but if somebody had done it way back when it should have been done, it would have been lots easier.

I firmly believe that an active open source community would be a much better caretaker of Java. Oracle has proven again and again that it doesn't care much about people who actually use Java.

Re:Fork!!! (5, Informative)

JamesRing (1789222) | about 2 years ago | (#43494621)

It was forked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK [wikipedia.org] The problem is that the browser plugin and WebStart parts of Java are not included in OpenJDK. But OpenJDK is excellent and widely used.

Re:Fork!!! (2)

lindi (634828) | about 2 years ago | (#43494693)

Openjdk has its own browser plugin.

Re:Fork!!! (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 2 years ago | (#43494897)

Ah. It's the old Sun fork. I didn't know it was still around.

I would argue that though it may be "widely" used, it is nowhere near as wide as it should be.

Re:Fork!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43495021)

OpenJDK and Oracle Java have been the same codebase since Java 7. Oracle has done their best to replace the pieces that they couldn't open source (libraries from other vendors) and the goal is for Oracle Java and OpenJDK to be the same thing.

Re:Fork!!! (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 2 years ago | (#43495227)

"... and the goal is for Oracle Java and OpenJDK to be the same thing."

If that were true, they could accomplish it instantly: simply drop their own fork and go with OpenJDK.

Therefore, it must not be true.

Re:Fork!!! (1)

aled (228417) | about 2 years ago | (#43498239)

Sun open sourced the main components of Java 6 as OpenJDK. Notably exceptions are the Java browser plugin and web start. IcedTea was a fork by Redhat but now they are OpenJDK contributors. What people refer simply as Java covers a lot of different things (compiler, library, plugin, hotspot jvm, etc).
Read the article on wikipedia for more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Fork!!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43495017)

The problem is that the browser plugin and WebStart parts of Java are not included in OpenJDK.

That's not a problem, that's two great points in it's favor!

Re:Fork!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43495629)

It was forked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK [wikipedia.org]

The problem is that the browser plugin and WebStart parts of Java are not included in OpenJDK. But OpenJDK is excellent and widely used.

I'm sorry to be a spelling nazi, but you misspelled "benefit" there.

Re:Fork!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43494955)

That seems like the patently obvious solution.

Or is that the obviously patented solution?

Re:Fork!!! (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 2 years ago | (#43495043)

I mean, sure, it's good Oracle is doing this. They're just way late, as usual.

When should they have done it? Ten years ago?

Re:Fork!!! (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 2 years ago | (#43495257)

Give me a break. I didn't pull this out of my ass. Oracle is notorious in the industry for taking a long time to do security fixes to Java.

Re:Fork!!! (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 2 years ago | (#43495773)

So you don't think it should have been done ten years ago?

Re:Fork!!! (2)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 2 years ago | (#43495973)

That's kind of like asking "When did you stop beating your wife?"

What I am meant is what I have already stated: Oracle is notorious for being slow to implement security fixes.

Re:Fork!!! (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 2 years ago | (#43497431)

And yet, it's not like Sun was any better.

Re:Fork!!! (1)

Coren22 (1625475) | about 2 years ago | (#43495253)

Microsoft tried and was sued by Sun for it.

Re:Fork!!! (1)

rudy_wayne (414635) | about 2 years ago | (#43495423)

For chrissakes, will somebody just fork Java and have done with this persistent Oracle nonsense?

I mean, sure, it's good Oracle is doing this. They're just way late, as usual.

Why doesn't somebody just fork it (from back when it was easily forkable), then re-implement the security fixes?

Granted, it would take a lot of work to do that NOW, but if somebody had done it way back when it should have been done, it would have been lots easier.

I firmly believe that an active open source community would be a much better caretaker of Java. Oracle has proven again and again that it doesn't care much about people who actually use Java.

And why exactly would "someone" want to do that? Why exactly would "someone" want to take on something that you admit is "a lot of work". Whats in it for that "someone"? What do they get for the many, many months of hard work that would be required to do this?

Instead of demanding that "someone" do it, why don't YOU do it?

What's that you say? You don't have the programming skills? You don't know anything about the code base and wouldn't even know where to start? You don't feel like spending an enormous amount of your life on something for no benefit other than "hey look what I did"?

Congratulations. You have just illustrated the fallacy of open source.

Re:Fork!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43496141)

The ironic part of your comment is that Java has been forked, and the fork was so successful that Oracle dropped their own codebase and went with the FOSS one instead.

Re:Fork!!! (1)

aled (228417) | about 2 years ago | (#43498269)

It was not a fork, rather Java was open sourced as OpenJDK.

Re:Fork!!! (1)

iggymanz (596061) | about 2 years ago | (#43496549)

the fork has been done, and it is useful. what 'fallacy" are you imaging in your ignorance?

Re:Fork!!! (1)

Tharkkun (2605613) | about 2 years ago | (#43497895)

For chrissakes, will somebody just fork Java and have done with this persistent Oracle nonsense? I mean, sure, it's good Oracle is doing this. They're just way late, as usual. Why doesn't somebody just fork it (from back when it was easily forkable), then re-implement the security fixes? Granted, it would take a lot of work to do that NOW, but if somebody had done it way back when it should have been done, it would have been lots easier. I firmly believe that an active open source community would be a much better caretaker of Java. Oracle has proven again and again that it doesn't care much about people who actually use Java.

Better yet. Why don't the people being paid to write Java stop making ridiculous security mistakes? You can blame Oracle management but somewhere there's a developer taking shortcuts.

Fortune (0)

LizardKing (5245) | about 2 years ago | (#43494535)

Strange fortune cookie or whatever else that quote at the bottom of a Slashdot page is called:

To err is human; to forgive is simply not our policy. -- MIT Assasination Club

Seems somewhat awkward given events in Boston over the last 24 hours.

Re:Fortune (1)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | about 2 years ago | (#43496755)

Strange fortune cookie or whatever else that quote at the bottom of a Slashdot page is called:
To err is human; to forgive is simply not our policy. -- MIT Assasination Club
Seems somewhat awkward given events in Boston over the last 24 hours.

Or, more pointedly, Aaron Swartz [wikipedia.org]

I want to believe (1)

onyxruby (118189) | about 2 years ago | (#43494537)

I feel like one of those UFO people standing in a field waiting for little green men to pop out of flying saucers on the second blue moon when the planets line up just right with the moon. I want to believe, really I do want to believe. But like the buffoon in the field waiting on the little green men I'm going to be waiting a very long time before Oracle /gets/ security.

It takes a lot more than simply delaying a given release of a given product to get your security ducks in a row. Here are some things Oracle needs to start embracing if they want to be taken half as seriously as Microsoft (never would have imagined saying that a decade ago).

Make it easy for security related people to get hold of you at any time of day on day of the year.
Make it easy for people supporting your products to know what is wrong with your products.
Release updates about what is wrong with your products in a timely manner.
There is never an excuse to take longer than 60 days to release a patch - ever.
Realize that the 'bad guys' don't operate on quarterly release schedules!
Provide workarounds for security vulnerabilities that make it easier to keep your product than remove your product.
Provide information about vulnerabilities faster than the news media, will they control the message or will you?
You can't stop the message from getting out, so at a minimum always provide a 'were working on this and we'll get it out asap' note.
Security through obscurity does not work in the real world, repeat until stop practicing this!
Make it easy to find out about vulnerabilities, navigating your website is only sanely done through Google.
Version control, automatic updates should NEVER move upgrade between major versions.

Oracle, I applaud that you are starting to take your head out of the sand, but you still don't get security and until I start to see some of the real world changes I listed above I'm going to continue to rank you one of the highest security risks any organization has to deal with.

Re:I want to believe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43495065)

Do you rank Oracle Java running a server application with no Applets or Web Start one of the highest security risks any organization has to deal with? It seems that 99% of the security issues are with applets/webstart which almost nobody uses. If your organization doesn't need Java on the desktop, then don't install it there! It's perfectly safe to use in a server environment.

so in other words... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43494541)

... they've delayed it indefinitely?

It's all about faith (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43494547)

It's too late for Java.... The damage has already been done and nothing they say or do will make me use java on anything!

Re:It's all about faith (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43494759)

But you probably wouldn't need it anyway, right?

Re:It's all about faith (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43496481)

None of my machines have java installed. And serve rside doesn't matter as it won't affect my machines.

Re:It's all about faith (1)

wmac1 (2478314) | about 2 years ago | (#43495967)

You already use Java but you don't know. Lots of those websites you visit use Java at the server side to process your requests (if we forget usage of Java on mobile phones).

Java is almost the default language in financial, insurance and healthcare applications.

Re:It's all about faith (1)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | about 2 years ago | (#43496791)

You already use Java but you don't know. Lots of those websites you visit use Java at the server side to process your requests (if we forget usage of Java on mobile phones).

Java is almost the default language in financial, insurance and healthcare applications.

And all Blu-ray players [wikipedia.org] :

At the 2005 JavaOne trade show, it was announced that Sun Microsystems' Java cross-platform software environment would be included in all Blu-ray Disc players as a mandatory part of the standard. Java is used to implement interactive menus on Blu-ray Discs, as opposed to the method used on DVD-video discs.

Speed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43494769)

For the love of god please optimize Java.

I gave up on Java almost a year ago. (1)

denis-The-menace (471988) | about 2 years ago | (#43494965)

-It comes out almost as often as Flash
-I don't see sites using it
-LibreOffice doesn't need it (unless you use Base)

So I didn't install it on my new box back in July 2012.
To date: Not one site yet complaining about it not being there.

Java as web browser plug-in is no longer needed. It's done.

Re:I gave up on Java almost a year ago. (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 2 years ago | (#43495391)

Wait until you have to use a KVM server, reconfig a fiber switch, use ASDM for older Cisco gear, eyeball monitoring software (stupid NetApp esp.), or anything else in a sysadmin role these days.

Unfortunately, while my home machine is blissfully free of Java (and Silverlight, Flash, etc), my work machines are not.

Re:I gave up on Java almost a year ago. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43497075)

The reason Java is in KVM servers is the !@#$ VNC based remote console. It was a bad move years ago to put that in Java, and it remains a bad move. In most cases, you can use X on the server, which is better and more securely managed with the "NoMachine" software at www.nomachine.com

Still no unsigned integers (0)

Infiniti2000 (1720222) | about 2 years ago | (#43494999)

But, still no fucking unsigned integers in Java! Jeezusfuckingchristalmighty!!

Funny (1)

Horshu (2754893) | about 2 years ago | (#43495175)

Maybe if they hadn't let the featureset get so stale over the years, they wouldn't have to make a choice between cleaning up the mess that is Java vs. achieving parity with .Net. They should have added lambdas years ago, but it's like pulling teeth to get them to make major releases.

Why, Why Why???? (2)

curunir (98273) | about 2 years ago | (#43495189)

Why is Java still persisting with this notion that it should be a browser plugin? No one wants Java as a browser plugin and that's where the security vulnerabilities have been found. Meanwhile, in the area where Java is popular (the server and, to a lesser extent, desktop applications) and in need of the features that Java 8 was supposed to bring, these security problems are a secondary concern--there's very little need to worry about malicious code when you're not downloading it from an untrusted source.

It's time to retire Applets and Web Start entirely and leave Java to the things it's good at.

Re:Why, Why Why???? (1)

wmac1 (2478314) | about 2 years ago | (#43496049)

1- What should users of older applications do?

2- Sun and Oracle have invested a lot of money on JavaFX which (in browser environment) is the equivalent of Flash and Silverlight. It uses Applets to run. It is much cleaner and advanced than Flash and it may have a good future.

Re:Why, Why Why???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43496543)

Because we need cross-platform application stubs for when web deployment can't do the job (remote desktop, VPN synthesis, etc.)

Re:Why, Why Why???? (1)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | about 2 years ago | (#43497247)

No one wants Java as a browser plugin

i.e. YOU. There were several game sites I used to frequent and there are a lot of useful Java applets out there for things like education I used to run. While they were safe, I just got tired of the risk of possibly following a link to an exploit. Even some mainstream torrent sites are riddled with hostile applets. I found this out when I watched one start to install an EXE. Having to rebuild a system from scratch vs. disabling Java plugins is a no brainer.

I just don't get it... (1)

mark-t (151149) | about 2 years ago | (#43495195)

From the here [oracle.com] :

One issue about anonymous classes is that if the implementation of your anonymous class is very simple, such as an interface that contains only one method, the syntax of anonymous classes may seem too unwieldy and unclear.

It could be argued that if you are manipulating classes that represent some sort of number or mathematical type, using methods like add() or multiply(), instead of using arguably much more intuitive operators is just as unwieldy or unclear (while the only sustainable argument against operator overloading in Java is actually isomorphic to objections about poor naming conventions for identifiers, and has nothing to do with operators, specifically).

So why is it that they figure that they should make actual changes to the language to provide syntactic sugar for what can be accomplished with anonymous classes when they figure it's not appropriate to do the same with classes which happen to represent some sort of mathematical type, the number of actual cases for which are not bounded, since the dimensionality of such types is not restricted, and there may be cases where you want a class to only deal with a specific cases rather than be a more general class (eg, one might want to make use of a specific 3x3 matrix class instead of using a general matrix class, or a tuple of Complex or BigInteger values, instead of a tuple of double values).

LOL (1, Funny)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#43495285)

Maintaining the security of the Java Platform always takes priority over developing new features,

If that's "always" the case mate, give up, and go back to burger king. You guys are just shit at it.

How about (1)

falcon5768 (629591) | about 2 years ago | (#43495465)

They learn how to properly use launchd items in OS X if they are going to be supporting Apple. Learning how to use a preference .plist so we can remotely manage updates without having to write bash scripts and stuff would help to

Missing the Point, it's all Microsoft fault. (2)

Daniel Hoffmann (2902427) | about 2 years ago | (#43495595)

Many people here are completely missing the point. First the ones that say that Java is insecure (it's not) and the ones correcting them saying that the Java Browser Plugin/Java Applets that are insecure (they are right on this) and should be removed from Java.

The problem with Java Applets is the same problem that you have with ActiveX, they suck because they run third party code in a sand-box like manner and isolating that kind of code from your precious system is pretty hard. The people that implemented these technologies are not incompetent, they just lacked the foresight to see this is unfeasible.

Now the people who says that Java Applets should be removed are right, BUT they can't see the legacy code that needs the functionality. Java has always been strong on the corporate world where it powers many, many applications. For a long time those applications used Java Applets to present end-user interfaces. If you ever worked at a corporation you know how slow they are to change their legacy systems, I mean, I live in an IBM world (as in I have to integrate lots of their solutions with solutions from another companies) and the amount of stuff they put out that requires the Java plugin on the browser astonishes me.

My company provide solutions to other companies, sometimes developing them from the ground-up and sometimes adapting solutions from other big companies (IMB, BMC, Oracle) to their clients. Now you have to deal with the IT department of the target company and man you would be surprised how often the only approved browser for internal use is Internet Explorer 8. And now you have three options, either you convince them that you have to install a desktop application on all their machines (crazy hard since they can have multiple operating systems), install a new browser on everyones system (crazy hard because they have tons of legacy systems that only run in ie9 and they don't want to provide support for two browsers) or simply to suck it up and develop for ie8 (you don't have to convince their IT departments since they already support that). Now if you want to show a little chart there you can either mess around with Javascript libraries that still support ie8 (good luck with that) or you can make a java applet (they already support the java browser plugin).

The biggest problem with Java Applets is that they are better than ActiveX. Crazy no? The biggest security problems of Java is that it's better than ActiveX. Since they are better they were used for more stuff and for a longer time and it's a lot harder to move away from them.

Some people say that they should just make two versions of java, or one with an optional to install the applet side. This would be nightmarish for users. The RIGHT way to do it is exactly what Oracle is doing, patching the stuff they find and moving people away from applets. But NEVER remove them from the JVM, just put a big, bold deprecated keyword on all applet-related classes.

So short story, Java Applets will go away when ie8 goes away. ie8 goes away when Windows XP goes away (Windows XP does not support ie9). So yeah, it's all Microsoft fault. I know you were all hoping for a +5 funny post, but I guess I will have to settle for +1 Informative.

Re:Missing the Point, it's all Microsoft fault. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43496109)

You shill. What's the matter? Were you sleeping at the wheel and didn't get first post with this brand new account? I bet we see you at the top of the next story.

Re:Missing the Point, it's all Microsoft fault. (1)

djdanlib (732853) | about 2 years ago | (#43497509)

Well, if we're going to get specific, okay. We agree and disagree on some things here. Java without some sort of qualifier refers to the ecosystem, right? So Java means the Java programming language, the Java compiler, the JVM (JRE), J2EE, the Java plugin... you know, all that stuff. The Java programming language isn't vulnerable, it's just a language. The rest of the Java products, the ones with actual executable code, are all exploitable and there are plenty of CVEs and breaches across the entire product line to prove it.

The JRE, arguably the least replaceable part of the whole ecosystem, is exploitable in many well-known ways. That number grows just about every week, it would seem. You know about the Java plugin, that's one large piece of the problem. There are other parts that deserve scrutiny. Many devices and applications - of particular note, big ticket server-side applications exposed to the Web that query databases - rely on a VERY specific version of the JRE which is usually 2 or more years old by the time the product makes it to market. These products cannot be upgraded at all, in some cases, and in others cannot be upgraded without breaking the application functionality and/or vendor support contract. The companies using these products spent hundreds of thousands or even millions on them and can't switch because it might be the only application that does what it does, or the expense of migrating is larger than the SEC fines and lawsuits a breach would incur. I've actually seen that reasoning before - it's cheaper to lose the data than to close the hole. The vendors aren't going to recode the entire application to get around a security flaw in some part of Java, and they shouldn't have to, but their applications will get pwned and blamed for the breach. Oracle doesn't lose when that happens, we do.

Java as a whole has a security problem eating away at its core because of the JRE. You simply can't say it's all going to be fine just because one popular brain-dead client platform+browser is slowly going away. Server attacks are going to continue to raid databases for PII via XSS and other attacks. Let's not forget about the recent cross-platform (Windows AND MacOS/X) desktop exploits circulating around. Exploits are alive and well on modern OSes.

Blaming the OS and browser is partially okay since a lot of drive-by Web attacks depend on a sequence of flaws in the JRE, the plugin, the browser, and the OS. How much of DEP's necessity do you think was brought about by Java applets? It's not entirely Microsoft's or Apple's or Mozilla's fault, but they aren't blameless. They continue to fail to sandbox applications and plugins.

The users share some of the blame, too. They're the ones going out and downloading Trojan horses from spam, P2P and other less-than-legitimate sources. The enabling technology just happens to be Java sometimes, but the blame there rests on the users.

In summary... There's more going on than just some trojany crapplets that can be phased out.

Let java applets DIE (3, Insightful)

damaki (997243) | about 2 years ago | (#43495633)

Now that javascript is fast, that HTML5 is everywhere, that games can even run on Flash, please Oracle, kill the damn java browser plugin. Sure, Unity uses it. Do J2EE developpers around the world care about it? No, we do not care!
Kill the damn thing. It's slow to start and it will always be slow even with the Jigsaw vaporware. I don't wan't Java in my browser. We are in 2013, ActiveX was crap, Flash is crap, java applets were, are and will always be crap.

Disclaimer, I am a java/J2EE developper and I am totally tired of the reputation that java is getting because of this damn browser plugin.

Re:Let java applets DIE (2)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | about 2 years ago | (#43497273)

I'd rather deal with a cleaned up Java plugin than extending the influence of Flash.

Security (1)

Alomex (148003) | about 2 years ago | (#43496533)

Make note boys and girls: this is what happens when you try to have the language+compiler+VM make up for the holes in the OS+browser.

Delays help languages (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43497109)

Delays seem to help languages. Perl 6 was the best thing that happened to Perl, since it allowed Perl 5 to become mature and widely used. Python 3 was the worst thing to happen to Python. C++ was miraculously stable for over a decade until the new 2011 standard. Even Java 7 was delayed for a long time with the Sun->Oracle move, and that helped Java 1.5/1.6 mature and be deployed instead of older versions.

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